From Paralegal to “Paraleader.” What Legal Recruiters Look For.

Episode Notes

Transcript

Tony Sipp:

And welcome back to the Paralegal Voice. My name is Tony Sipp and I’m here with Tracey Perkins. Tracey is a special guest that we have and a great friend. Tracey, welcome to the Paralegal Voice.

Tracey Perkins:

Thank you so much for having me, Tony. Thank you for the invitation. I am so excited to be here.

Tony Sipp:

We’re more than welcome to have you. And I’m sorry it took so long to get you on the podcast. So first of all, people don’t know how much of a boss Tracey was a paralegal. She’s just a powerhouse in the industry, in the legal industry. So first off, we’re going to talk a little bit about how you pivoted from being a paralegal and evolved to the roles that you are in. Now you have your MBA for kids, two pop, the husband legal, recruiting all star, but be honest, how many cups of coffee are you averaging a day?

Tracey Perkins:

Well, my morning usually starts with a medium golden eagle from Dutch Bros. Okay. Specifically what specifically? Yes. So a very big cup that I tend to sip all morning.

Tony Sipp:

That’s awesome. So congratulations. First of all, get your MBA this year that it was a surprise to us, but not to you. So congratulations first of all on that one. Thank you. So can you walk us through kind of that journey, your MBA journey where you probably almost through in the towel, but didn’t, what kept you going?

Tracey Perkins:

Yeah, what kept me going was just my family, of course, my support system, my husband, he’s always the one that’s like, you got this. What do you mean? I know you’re tired. I know you want to quit. I know you want to give up, but it’s you. So just do it. And once it’s done, it’s done. So that was always a motivation, of course, but also just wanting to elevate, wanting to be better, wanting to be able to offer more knowledge and put some more expertise behind some of the things that I’m teaching and talking about when I’m recruiting with my candidates, when I’m teaching my students. So I just wanted that kind of MBA, just to kind of put that little cherry on the top. I

Tony Sipp:

Wanted some initials. I love it. I love it. Put some letters in the back of that name. That is fantastic. So to that point, you’ve had an incredible evolution from paralegal to, as I said, a powerhouse recruiter and now an instructor.

Tracey Perkins:

Yes.

Tony Sipp:

Teaching at the University of Irvine. What lessons have you learned from each role that still guide you today?

Tracey Perkins:

Oh, that’s a great question. Well, I think the biggest thing I learned from being a paralegal, specifically a litigation paralegal, Tony, you know how that,

Tony Sipp:

Let’s distinguish that. Yeah.

Tracey Perkins:

Yes, exactly. I think the lesson I learned from it being in the game for 20 years, it’s just that grit, that resilience, that desire and that push to just keep going to get the best results. So kind of like that drive it kind of just paralegal in gave me that drive. As far as teaching, I love to motivate. I love to inspire. I’ve always felt this, I guess altruistic nature of wanting to pour into others and give people the game of what I didn’t know when I first started out in the legal industry and when I first became a paralegal. So I think just that need to invest in others, that’s what I get from teaching. And on the recruiting side, I love recruiting because I get to help people. I get to strategize with their careers. These are life-changing decisions when you’re thinking about moving firms or taking on another role. So I love to be that guiding force and that person kind of like that guardian angel of your career and just kind of help you strategize and it helps professionally, but also personal development as well. So those are some things that I pick up on from each of my roles, and I just kind of blend that with my everyday life as well.

Tony Sipp:

And you do it very well. So thank you for doing that. So like you said, you’re doing the recruiting and as well as the teaching. So what led you to join Round Hill? Did I say that right? Round Hill Search. That was the first transition, right? From paralegal to recruiter. So tell us about making that leap, first of all, and where you are now.

Tracey Perkins:

Yeah, absolutely. That’s a great question. So I landed with Round Till search because I was with a firm, and I just want to be honest about my experience. I kind of felt like I had hit my ceiling. I came from the East Coast working at AM Law 100 and 200 firms. Also was a paralegal for four years in Atlanta. And then I came to California and didn’t know that I couldn’t be a paralegal because I didn’t have a certificate. So I started out as a legal assistant when I came to California, moved to a firm thinking after a year I’ll get my affidavit and all that good stuff. Well, unfortunately, the firm that I was with, I kind of had the title, but they just would never give me my full paralegal title back. But I was doing the paralegal work and I was billing, they were billing me out at a very high number.

So I kind of was like, okay, where do I go from here? What more can I do? I’ve always wanted to be some sort of manager, like a paralegal manager or paralegal supervisor, because paralegal, I fell in love with the operations. I initially got into the legal industry thinking I wanted to be an attorney, but I realized once I became a paralegal, I was more obsessed with how things, operations, just strategizing on the matters and not necessarily the law in particular. So it kind of shifted my focus. So I always wanted to become a paralegal manager, a paralegal supervisor, but I just kind of hit that ceiling and I wasn’t getting the promotion that I was looking for. Hopped on the phone with a recruiter to look for, see what was out there, see if there were any paralegal manager or supervisor roles that I could possibly jump into.

Had a great conversation. And she just asked me, have you ever thought about recruiting? And I was like, you know what? I’ve always worked with recruiters. I always thought it was something that I could do. Because at that point in my career, I did help with hiring and training and all of that stuff at the different law firms. So yeah, she asked me the question and planted the seed and she said, well, just think about it. So I looked up Round Hill, search’s, my minority and female owned, fell in love with the vision, fell in love with the vision, and I’m like, I’m going to give it a shot. My husband said, step out on faith, do something for yourself. We’ll be all right. Now, I’m here at Round Hill Search as a recruiting manager. Been here for two years, absolutely love it. And I feel like I have found my true passion and what I love to do.

Tony Sipp:

You just gave me the chills. I want to join the team. I want to join the team now. That is fantastic. And I think that’s the question a lot of people ask when they hit that place in the road asking themselves, is there more? Is there something I can do more? And there is, and you did it, and you had your support group around you. Not only encouraging you, but saying like, go, go. Do it. Go do it. Make it happen. That is fantastic. I love that. That’s a great story. You got to tell that every time. So now you’re in the position because you still have that drive and you’re still moving forward and you’re still trying to help others, and now you’re shaping the future of paralegals at UCI. So what is your secret to keeping legal ethics? This might be a little spin, legal ethics, engaging and not just the case book. I mean, you’re coming with all of this experience. How do you translate that? I don’t want to call ’em kids, because we’re all different levels here. All of your students coming in, teaching them ethics, teaching them the whole legal field and how to be the best indispensable paralegal that they can be, can be.

Tracey Perkins:

Absolutely. I really feel, and I’m a true believer and experience is the best teacher. I have 20 years worth of war stories, real life stories and things that I didn’t know, things that I didn’t understand and things that I learned along the way. So I feel like real life stories, keeping it real, being authentic, but also showing my vulnerabilities of what I didn’t know when I was in their shoes or in their position. So I just like to always give real scenarios, really get engaged with the students, with discussions of, okay, this is what happened. A paralegal does this or this or that, or the third, what do you guys think? So really just keeping it engaging by keeping it discussion focused on real life stories, real case scenarios, so that they could take that and implement it in real time.

Tony Sipp:

Wow, that is fantastic and very true. The real life stories are the ones that I have a lot of stories. Yeah, I do too. So I’m sure. Yes. Yeah, they’re fun. So when we come back, let’s talk about one of those must skill haves every paralegal should have in 2025. Let’s take a quick commercial break and we will be right back and welcome back to the Paralegal Voice. My name is Tony Sipp and I’m here with Tracey Perkins. We’re going to talk about Tracey now. This is right up your alley. What are the must have career skills you believe every paralegal needs to have in 2025 and why?

Tracey Perkins:

Tech skills technology. And I feel like Tony knew that I was going to probably say that, and more specifically ai, but what I want to say is always managing the tech and not letting the tech or the AI manage you. That’s really what I’m trying to hone in for my paralegals, is using it as a tool of efficiency and assistance, but not to lean and rely on it. Because there’s nothing like the critical thinking skills and the problem solving skills of an actual paralegal and an actual human being. And that’s something that we still will not be able to get rid of. AI is a great tool to use for assistance, but I’m urging everyone to learn it, grasp it, figure out how you can make it work for you, but make sure you’re not working for the AI and still keeping that personal touch and making sure your quality control, checking everything, every citation, whatever you’re using AI for.

But as the paralegal, paralegals always ask me, what’s going to happen with paralegals, with ai? Absolutely nothing. Because you think attorneys are going to be the ones using ai? No, it’s going to be paralegals. We are the driving forces of technology in the law firms. So as a paralegal in 2025, really focus on getting certifications, honing in those technology skills, going to conferences, webinars, CLEs, whatever you need to do to brush up on those tech skills and make sure you’re ahead of the curve. Because if you’re the paralegal that’s like, Hey, this is what we can use this tool for, trust me, that’s elevating you, elevating your visibility. I’m big on that, Tony, and elevating your leadership skills. And we’re going to get into that a little bit, but I have a series that’s coming out from paralegal to para leader.

Tony Sipp:

Nice.

Tracey Perkins:

Ooh, look at you. Yeah, we’ll get into that in a little bit. But that’s kind of the driving force behind that is thinking of yourself as a leader of ethics and technology within a law firm and positioning yourself to be that go-to person and elevating your compensation. What is it? Making your non-disposable indispensable. Yeah, inable. Making yourself indispensable. Indispensable, yeah. You knew what the word I was looking for. So yes, technology in 2025, especially more specifically, ai and AI has been roped into everything from LexisNexis to relativity to contract management tools if you’re doing m and a or a corporate paralegal. So just learning it and learning how to use it and manage it. And again, not letting it manage you, but you manage the technology.

Tony Sipp:

That is a quote of the week. We might actually title this. So that is fantastic. Manage it. Don’t let it manage you. To that point, we’re in the field and technology is evolving so quickly, Tracey, and let’s say I’m a person who’s been in the field and technology’s happening to me, at least I feel that way that it’s happening to me. I’m used to doing things a certain way, and that’s my fear. My fear is that it is going to take over my job because this is another thing that I have to learn. Learning. I know the law, but this other thing is trying to, I used to do medical summaries and now there’s a company out there that’s doing the medical summaries for me that took all my billing away. What do I do? What do you tell somebody who feels stuck in their position and while all of this AI and other technologies evolving around them?

Tracey Perkins:

Yeah, that’s a great question. The best thing that I can tell people to do is always remain open, flexible, and remain a learner. I don’t care how many years you have in the field, like you said, everything’s always changing. It’s always evolving, especially in the legal industry. So just always remaining open, flexible, and being open to learning self-study, your paralegal manager or the attorneys or the partners that you work for, they’re not going to say, Hey, I need you to go online and look this up and look that up. That’s for you to do. That’s for you to understand your job and understand your role and understand how these tools can make it better. So learning how to use those tools to make things and processes and workflows more efficient. So to that paralegal that feels like, is technology going to take my job? Now, there’s a company that does medical summaries well still on the backend, I understand that may take away some of your billing, but you’re still going to have to review those summaries. You’re still going to have to check ai. You are going to be that person that reaches out to those vendors and chooses the vendor because you’re dealing with a trial budget. For example, I used to have to do trial budgets, and I was tasked with picking the right vendor because they were more cost effective, more cost efficient. So your job is going to remain, but it may not remain the same. So just understanding how you need to evolve and change with the landscape, with the legal landscape and technology

Tony Sipp:

Couldn’t have said it better myself. Thank you for that. Tracey. Let’s kind of switch a little bit and talk about job seekers. What is the one thing too many paralegals do on their resumes that make recruiters cry inside?

Tracey Perkins:

Let me pick one. I’ve seen

Tony Sipp:

A paralegal manager, and I guess we can come up with our top five, maybe our top three, but

Tracey Perkins:

I know I was like, let me pick one. One that people I don’t think realize, especially coming from other industries, we don’t want to see photos on the resume.

Tony Sipp:

That was my first one. That was my first one. That’s funny.

Tracey Perkins:

It’s the legal industry. We’re very roaring. Take the pictures off. That’s what LinkedIn is for, but that’s also the gift of being able to elevate your LinkedIn and elevate that digital footprint. You could put your picture there, but we don’t want to see it on the resume. Also, just formatting, if it’s not readable. Again, we’re in the legal industry, very linear, black and white bullet points because time is money, right? And when you’re dealing with a paralegal manager like you that still has billable hours and overseeing workflows, but you, you’re in charge of hiring and training and all of that stuff, you need to quickly be able to look at a resume and see if this person is worth talking to. So you don’t need to put all the fluff in it. We don’t want to see that. Make it very linear, bullet points, crisp, clean, make sure your line spacing is good. If I see a resume that just isn’t even pleasing to the eye, I’m not going to look at it. So make sure it’s readable and it looks good. And the plainer, the more simple, the better.

Tony Sipp:

Keep it simple. All right, good advice. Really, really good advice. And LinkedIn to her point, first, get our attention. And then second, we are going to check out LinkedIn.

Tracey Perkins:

Yes,

Tony Sipp:

We’re going to go there anyway. We’re going to look at your profile. We’re going to look at your picture. We’re going to look at your resume, make sure that what your resume says matches up with what your LinkedIn says.

Tracey Perkins:

Absolutely. We do the matching game.

Tony Sipp:

Yes.

Tracey Perkins:

And I’ve had people passed on because the LinkedIn didn’t match. Their name was different. Also, this is one that people kind of sleep on your email address, make sure it’s professional. You could get a Gmail for free. It takes 30 seconds. Create. If you’re applying to roles, please don’t use the same email address that you use for Tinder or whatever have you. Let’s keep it clean. Let’s keep it professional. Preferably just your name like Tracey dot Perkins at gmail will suffice. So also pay attention to your email address in the email that you’re using. When you’re applying to roles, you will get passed on if you have a strange email.

Tony Sipp:

Absolutely. Absolutely. With the guy with the last name of sip. Have a [email protected]. Works for certain. Well, I love that.

Tracey Perkins:

Have a sip is fine. Have a sip is perfectly fine. I love that. And it goes with your name and it shows your wit. So I actually really like that. So it doesn’t even have to be plain or anything like that, but just not vulgar. Making sure you remember it should be an attorney may see this email address. So just making sure you’re putting your best foot forward, have a sip is brilliant.

Tony Sipp:

It grabs people’s attention for the right reasons. So that worked out for you? Absolutely,

Tracey Perkins:

Yes.

Tony Sipp:

Situation. I’ll take that. So also, you worked at some really incredible law firms. What do you think makes a truly exceptional paralegal stand out? You were an exceptional paralegal.

Tracey Perkins:

Yes. What made stand out? The paralegals that go above and beyond. And I know people are like, oh, well, you have to say no, and you have to put your foot down and you have to set boundaries, which you absolutely do if it’s something that you feel you’re being overworked or treated unfairly or anything to that regard. But I was always that paralegal that would try to think of the next step before the attorney had to ask me to do it or whatever have you. Another thing that really made me stand out as a paralegal, I learned every attorney that I worked with, I learned their style. I learned how they communicate their communication styles. Some people get passionate and they start yelling and not saying that it’s okay for people to yell and things like that, but I just was always kind of like the calm in the storm and I’m just like, okay, you yelled now what are we going to do about it?

How are we going to solve this problem? I’m that person that kind of sat in the corner with the notepad and I’m listening to what everyone’s saying and I’m like, all right, this is the issue here. This is the issue there. How can I help fix this for my people? And I really looked at my attorneys and my team as my people we’re talking millions of dollars on the line. In some cases, we’re talking big clients. I mean, we’re talking attorneys, livelihoods as well. And I don’t think all the time we think about that, especially in ethics. It’s the attorney’s license that is on the line. It’s the attorney’s reputation that’s on the line. Yes, paralegals, we are just as important. But just understanding where you fit in that process and your role is to make things easier and more efficient so that the attorneys can kind of just focus on the law.

So what I always tried to do was just try to stay a step ahead, make things easier, take it off of their plate and figure out the most way to get success and results. So I’m reaching out to vendors before attorneys asked me to, because I was on the email where they said, we’re getting a document production in with a million pages of documents. I’m already preparing for that. No one has to tell me to go into action. I’m ready to go into action. So I think those are some of the things that made me stand out, just being ambitious, critical thinking, problem solving, also being an active listener and wanting to show up for my team every day. If I knew there was a deposition taking place, I would stay on my lunch break, stay in my office. And I’ve been that person where my attorney’s like, I need you to find this document right now. And he’s in the middle of a deposition, and if I had gone out to lunch, I wouldn’t have been able to find that exhibit for him on the spot and send it to him. So yeah, that’s the type of paralegal that I was.

Tony Sipp:

Yes, and those are the paralegals I love to hire. So Tracey, we’re going to take a quick break and we will be right back and welcome back to the Paralegal Voice. My name is Tony Sipp and I’m here with Tracey Perkins, NBA. Forgot to add that earlier. My apologies. Yes. So Tracey, what is your golden rule for building lasting professional relationships in the legal industry?

Tracey Perkins:

Wow. That is a great question. I think the first thing that comes to mind is people always remember how you made them feel. So think about that even professionally. And as a paralegal, I usually try to stand out with my soft skills. You can have all the tech skills, all the document management skills in the world, but if people don’t like you, they’re not going to care to remember you or they’re not going to care to really give you that reference. So it is something to say about still being personable, being likable, being approachable, and being solution driven. My attorneys knew that Tracey would get it done no matter what. I was always very resourceful and they would come to me with an issue or a problem, and Tracey’s already working up here trying to figure out how to solve it. So yeah, I think just highlighting the soft skills, being personable, being likable, being approachable, but also being solution driven, and you’ll build those long lasting relationships in the legal field.

My attorneys, I have plenty of references when people are like, give me three. I’m like, and I’m not trying to sound like I’m gloating or anything like that, but I take pride in that because this is the reputation that I have built for myself and it will follow you. The legal industry is very small. I had a candidate that was actually an attorney that, IE. Johnson in Washington on my 20 years ago. Turns out she moved out here. She’s a California attorney now. We connected. She became my candidate. And when I saw that she worked at Steptoe for those years in the same office, I was like, oh my God, I remember you. Imagine if that wasn’t a good memory or she didn’t like me, I was rude to her, whatever have you. That was 20 years ago on the opposite side of the country. So I just want everyone to always remember that remain personable, likable, approachable, and definitely solution driven. And you’ll build those long lasting relationships.

Tony Sipp:

And that goes for attorneys as well, because it is a small world they know. We know you get a lot more because again, their bar licenses on

Tracey Perkins:

Absolutely attorneys. Please be nice to your paralegals. We will push your work to the bottom of the pile. If you’re not nice to us, let’s just be real about it. It makes a difference.

Tony Sipp:

Be nice, be nice. Yes. Well, Tracey, as somebody who’s mastered career pivots, what advice do you give a seasoned paralegals looking to transition to say legal ops or tech or even recruiting like you did or teaching for that matter?

Tracey Perkins:

Yeah, that is a great question. I think the first thing is just putting yourself out there, believing that you can do it and believing that you have something to offer. I had no idea that you guys would think I was great, if that makes sense. I just started talking. I just started putting stuff out there and people started gravitating. So first of all, just having that confidence and that belief in yourself that you can make that transition and that you do have things to offer to the profession and future generations. So that’s the first step, just kind of putting yourself out there. Start connecting, start networking, get a mentor or if you already have one, talk to your mentor about how to elevate, how to transition, where can I go from here? And again, remaining open and flexible. And once you reach a point where it is like 20 years in, you have that foundational experience. Now it’s time to start thinking about your passion. What do you like to do? What do you want to do? And how can you bridge that? So when the recruiter from Round Hill Search asked me, have I ever thought about recruiting? It was something that was already planted in me, then I’m like, actually, yes, I want to help people. I love talking to people. You’re going to pay me to meet people and talk to them all day. Sign me up.

So just start evaluating yourself, looking at what you’ve done, how you can build on that, and then sharpening those tools to go ahead and make that leap for the next level, whether that’s going back to get your MBA if you want to go into operations or things like that. So yeah, that’s what I would suggest. Being bold, being confident, putting yourself out there, remaining flexible learning, getting more certifications, get some initials behind your name if that’s the way you want to go. But really just thinking about what you love to do and something that I took the Clifton Strengths test, that assessment, it really highlighted my five strengths for me. And when I started looking at those strengths, it helped confirm and solidify even more that I was going to write path with teaching and recruiting and all of that kind of stuff.

Tony Sipp:

Wow. So you’ve validated what you thought to be true, so,

Tracey Perkins:

Yep.

Tony Sipp:

That’s great. And I’ll tell the producers to make sure that they put that in the link so people can actually take that test as well. I think that’s a great, great tool to utilize. What is one of the things that you, something that now that you wish you knew when you were starting off in law, I suspect I could be wrong here, that when you were applying or looking for a career and becoming a paralegal and the whole access to justice and the rule of law and doing something good for people, that vein, because a lot of those things are still true, would lead you to where you are. So what is something that you wish someone told you when you were just starting off in law?

Tracey Perkins:

Oh man, that is a great question, Tony. You know what? I wish someone would have told me how important I was to the team and how I am a profit center for the law firm. I did not understand that when I first started out as a paralegal, I didn’t understand billable hours. And keep in mind, I’m from the East coast, so you don’t have to go to paralegal school, you don’t have to get your paralegal certificate, so you’re not taught these things. You kind of get your first paralegal job, you take the title and you run with it. One of the things that I wish I understood was that I was a major asset to the firm, and I would’ve taken some of my roles and some of my positions and some of my projects more seriously. I would’ve taken myself more seriously. I would’ve joined association sooner.

I would’ve found myself a mentor and someone to really help guide me and strategize for my career. I didn’t understand that as a paralegal, this is a wonderful profession and if you strategize and think about the law firms you’re going to or the practice areas that you’re in, how you can really, really elevate professionally and personally and monetarily. I had no idea. I just thought I wanted to go to law school. I wanted be an attorney, so this is a good way to get some experience and figure out what I’m going to do next. And, and I fell upon this great profession, and I just wish that I took myself more serious and understood and strategized better with my career, gotten a mentor earlier in the game and understood how billable hours work and that I’m a profit center for the firm and really just building upon that foundation from the beginning.

Tony Sipp:

That is some great advice I got in that. I’m a poli-sci major. I am from the east coast too. I’m from New York. Are you? I didn’t know that, Tony. Oh, you didn’t know. I thought you knew. Yeah, I went to Fordham, so I moved down there. That’s where I got my poli-sci. And then I decided, go figure. We wanted to go to law school. I wanted be lawyers. Then I moved out here and I mean, there was a lot. I went into politics, did the whole, I was a deputy finance director for a Congress person. I got really heavily engaged in politics, and then I went into housing because as you know, politics is not necessarily the best paying. They get you when you’re young and bright and ready to take on the world and still young and bright and ready to take on the world, but pivot into housing and then into law.

So there’s always been a vein for me doing the access to justice, making sure that we take that skillset that we mastered. But one thing I didn’t understand, even though I did financing, even though I was working in the business, not until I became the paralegal manager did I understand the business of law instead of the practice of law. And that’s what really clicked for me, that it’s getting those numbers done, getting those numbers, making sure you hit your billable requirements. I’m like, oh, that’s great. They’re high. I mean, depending on what firm you’re at. I mean, they could be really high. They could be manage life level, but Absolutely. Yeah. But the business of law really opened my eyes to more and becoming more and wanting to do more. So I took that skillset and went into, I ran for office and I’m like, I can use the skillset over here and still be and law. So I really appreciate you saying that because people need to understand you are a tool. You are an asset in our field. We don’t hear that every day unless you’re at that firm that lets you know every day that you really are.

Tracey Perkins:

And that’s rare. It’s rare.

Tony Sipp:

Yeah. It’s rare. It’s rare to find a thank you or please or any of that. But if you get that, know that you have a gift, you’re at a good place.

Tracey Perkins:

Absolutely.

Tony Sipp:

So thank you for saying that. I really think that’s a good observation. And when you understand that and have a mentor that can point that out to you, and then that support system, whether it be part of an association, Nala, the Lapa in our case, and really got to know each other even better going through Lapa. So get involved, get engaged and understand, know your value that it tie into the recruiting and your raises and what you’re asking for when it’s time to get that job offer. So thank you for being our guest. Tracey, I have some quick rapid fire yes or no questions for you.

Tracey Perkins:

All right, let’s do it.

Tony Sipp:

I’m new at the end of the show that we want to just try to get it to your yes or no answer to. Okay. At 21, I’m go through ’em right now. You ready?

Tracey Perkins:

I’m ready. Let’s do it.

Tony Sipp:

Do you believe legal recruiting can change the face of DEI in the profession?

Tracey Perkins:

Yes.

Tony Sipp:

Have you ever done Zoom call and pajama bottoms?

Tracey Perkins:

Absolutely.

Tony Sipp:

Do you think most law firms undervalue paralegals?

Tracey Perkins:

Yes.

Tony Sipp:

Can a great cover letter still make a difference?

Tracey Perkins:

Absolutely.

Tony Sipp:

Is TikTok a legit place for legal career advice?

Tracey Perkins:

I’m in the middle.

Tony Sipp:

Okay. Alright. No. Have you ever reviewed resumes while watching cartoons with your kids?

Tracey Perkins:

Kids? Oh, absolutely. Every day. That’s why I love my job.

Tony Sipp:

Should paralegals be negotiating their salaries more often?

Tracey Perkins:

Oh, absolutely. Yes. Annually.

Tony Sipp:

Annually. Okay. Good advice. You heard that, folks, you heard it here first. Do you secretly love legal dramas even though they’re totally inaccurate?

Tracey Perkins:

Oh my God, yes. Suits.

Tony Sipp:

I knew that was going to come off suits. Yeah. I love the show. I haven’t finished the seasons yet.

Tracey Perkins:

Yes. But we know Nicole would not really have that corner office. She’s a paralegal, but I digress. Yeah.

Tony Sipp:

Relationships. Have you ever used chat GPT to brainstorm career advice?

Tracey Perkins:

Oh, definitely. Yes.

Tony Sipp:

Is networking more important than GPA in today’s market?

Tracey Perkins:

Yes.

Tony Sipp:

Should every paralegal know basic project management?

Tracey Perkins:

Absolutely. Yes. Yes, yes.

Tony Sipp:

Is it okay to bring your dog into a Zoom interview

Tracey Perkins:

With me? Yes. With the actual employer? No.

Tony Sipp:

Okay. Understood. Got it. Got it. Do you believe the quite quitting trend applies to legal staff support?

Tracey Perkins:

Oh, absolutely. I think that’s where it started.

Tony Sipp:

Have you ever helped a candidate negotiate a better offer and then danced about it?

Tracey Perkins:

Oh yes. Oh yes. I closed the deal. Dance, yes.

Tony Sipp:

Do you believe empathy is a superpower in legal recruiting?

Tracey Perkins:

Oh, absolutely. It’s my number one superpower.

Tony Sipp:

Excellent. Is work-life balance in legal jobs actually possible?

Tracey Perkins:

Yes. Get you a good recruiter like me.

Tony Sipp:

Okay. Can’t disagree with that. Should every legal team have a recruiter on call, like a legal headhunter er?

Tracey Perkins:

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. This is what we do every day. Let us do it for you.

Tony Sipp:

Do you think legal tech will eventually require paralegals to learn basic coding?

Tracey Perkins:

I haven’t thought about it, but now I’m intrigued. Possibly. That’s a great question.

Tony Sipp:

Maybe prompts. Maybe the prompts.

Tracey Perkins:

Yeah, maybe the prompts. Yeah.

Tony Sipp:

Do you own more than one motivational coffee mug?

Tracey Perkins:

Yeah, absolutely.

Tony Sipp:

Should more law firms offer structured mentorship for paralegals?

Tracey Perkins:

Yes. Absolutely.

Tony Sipp:

And lastly, is Tracey Perkins Esquire going to be your next title?

Tracey Perkins:

No, but I don’t think I’m done with the initials. I think it’ll be Dr. Tracey Perkins.

Tony Sipp:

Oh, you heard it here, folks. All right. Yeah. Tracey,

Tracey Perkins:

I’m thinking about making the leap and seeing if I want to go for the PhD.

Tony Sipp:

Alright. And I think you can do it. You have the team, you got the will, the drive, the passion for all of this, and I’m so glad that we met and that I get to be in your world and surrounded with all this excellence. So Tracey, thank you for being our guest today on the Paralegal Voice. Where can people reach you if they want to follow up with you, maybe they’re looking for a job, we’re just talking and get some additional information or find out about the Clifton Strengths test, how can they get in contact with you?

Tracey Perkins:

Sure. You can always reach out to me on LinkedIn. Let’s connect. Send me an invite, follow me. My LinkedIn is literally Tracey Perkins. Yep. T-R-A-C-E-Y. Don’t forget the EEY, Perkins, P-E-R-K-I-N-S, nsa, MBA. And I’ll also give out my email address. You guys can also shoot me an email and I’d love to hop on the phone or connect with you. My email address is Tracey, TRA cce [email protected]. R-O-U-N-D-H-I-L-L-S-E-A-R-C h.com.

Tony Sipp:

Alright, thank you again. If anybody does that, it will be on the website after this episode airs. And Tracey, again, thank you again for being our guest. Have a wonderful rest of your day. And folks, we’ll see you next time. Have a great day.

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