Stand Up to Stand Out

Episode Notes

Transcript

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Welcome to Lunch Hour Legal Marketing. I am Gyi from AttorneySync. And I am in the middle of a three day fast.

Conrad Saam:

I’m Conrad Saam from Mockingbird, and I am astounded that Gyi has yet again come up with something to talk about that involves food tidbit about myself. I immigrated to the United States in 1979 and the first memory I have of being here was watching ET which came out in 1982, so I don’t know what happened for the first three years.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Welcome to Lunch Hour, Legal Marketing, a show about marketing law firms. We are recording today on June 4th, 2025. And Conrad, what is the historical significance of June 4th?

Conrad Saam:

Well, happy passage by Congress of the 19th Amendment, and my daughter just pinged me that she registered to vote because she’s now vote Registerable.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

She’s now 18. Congratulations to your daughter. And interestingly, as we were prepping for the show, I noted that how many Democratic senators do you believe voted against the 19th Amendment back in 1919

Conrad Saam:

At the risk of quoting Star Wars, it’s a trap. I’m guessing that the Democrats were not the party of inclusion back in the day and you were setting the audience up for this.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

I was,

Conrad Saam:

Hit me. What happened?

Gyi Tsakalakis:

17, 20 Democratic Yays. 17, nays nine, not voting. 36 Republican yays, eight Republican nays and five Republicans not voting. And I was mentioning also that I’m in the middle of reading Theodore Rex. If you’re interested in a biography of Teddy Roosevelt history, history’s mysteries get involved, understanding your history and what’s old is new and things are upside down and all that kind of stuff. But what else are we talking about today, Conrad? Aside from American History,

Conrad Saam:

We have an absolutely packed news session. There’s so much that we’re going to talk about from a news perspective, and then we’re going to talk about Stand for Something. Now. This is something that you’ve heard from us, multiple flavors of this multiple times. We’re going to bring it back with some really great examples of people have chosen or not chosen to stand for something

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Music.

Announcer:

Welcome to Lunch Hour, Legal Marketing, teaching you how to promote market and make fat stacks for your legal practice here on Legal Talk Network.

Conrad Saam:

Welcome to Lunch Hour Legal Marketing. Let’s hit the news. All right, Gyi, you and I rarely, very rarely have guests on the pod and when they hit the news, we like to showcase that Eric Goldman, professor Eric Goldman has a great article on a decision around Conquesting brand names. We’ve talked a lot about Conquesting brand names on this show and the complications that Google has created for all of you in avoiding this unintentionally, what was the decision? Why are we so adamantly interested in this?

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Well, it reaffirmed what many of the courts have said, which is that conquesting competitive keywords with ads is permissible. We don’t give enough love. I think people should be subscribed to Eric Goldman’s Technology and Marketing Loblaw. We’ll put a link. I mean, if you’re in the intersection of legal marketing, the law and technology, this is a treasure trove resource, but the caveat was that even though it’s permissible, they also added this weird caveat about how you have to disclaim it and we’ll leave that to readers to go lead, and it was very, very confusing. This is classic. This is classic in these situations where they got the rule, but then they come up with this weird thing where you have to put some disclaimer on it and whether people read disclaimers and do you a disclaimer, you can’t put a disclaimer in the ad copy. Anyways, another example of courts and technology not always being in alignment,

Conrad Saam:

And by weird Gyi means a stupid approach to handling this, I think is what he’s saying, but at least we have guidance.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Yeah, I was trying to find the specifics of it, but will a lot of people go and read on their own?

Conrad Saam:

Okay, we’re super happy to announce for CallRail a partnership with RingCentral. RingCentral has moved pretty heavily into ai, an AI answering agent, similar to our own investment in capture Now, and I want to also highlight that we are not talking about CallRail because they pay us lots of money, even though they do, they’re sponsor of this show. We are telling you about this because we think it is specifically newsworthy, and that theme of us bringing in people who are specifically newsworthy is going to come back later on in the show. Hey, Gyi, I also heard via press release that Meta is taking efforts to put you and me out of business. What were their guidelines?

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Yes, as reported by the Wall Street Journal, and there was a big fuss about this, but Zuck came out and said that Meta is going to enable brands to fully create and target ads using artificial intelligence by the end of next year. And so, hey, you don’t need Conrad and Gyi, you don’t need marketing people. You can just open your Meta Ads account and let the ais run ads for your law firm. What could possibly go wrong?

Conrad Saam:

This is the second time in a row that this theme has come up on the podcast. Maybe we do have something to worry about. Gyi, I don’t.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Yeah, and Google’s doing the same thing. I mean, everybody’s doing the same thing. I mean, guess what? There’s a bunch of lawyers sitting around right now in their firms thinking, this sounds great. And by the way, what else can I have AI do at my firm so that I don’t have to do it? In publishing content, managing ads, practicing laws, doing legal research, submitting briefs. Hooray Q Gyis. Do what the bots cannot theme. Do what the bots

Conrad Saam:

Cannot. Okay, astroturfing in the news. What’s going on with Nancy Mace? Gyi,

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Yes. This was also recently in the news reported by Wired that according to staffers and a deposition, Nancy Mace allegedly was using her tech background to deploy bots across social media and ask staffers to surreptitiously post on her behalf essentially doing what a lot of the legal influencers have been doing, which is just creating these fake or buying fake followers, these fake accounts, fake Reddit subs, fake testimonials, all this fakeness. Somebody please do something. Will somebody please do something about this problem?

Conrad Saam:

Listen, this is not in our list, but this hit me as you were talking about this. I was unaware of this until someone brought it to my attention that there are agencies focused on the legal industry where employees are required to leave a certain number of positive reviews for their clients.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

What a mess.

Conrad Saam:

Yeah,

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Don’t believe anything on the internet. Everybody’s a doc. I’ve

Conrad Saam:

Got that from two different digital marketing agencies this week, which was kind of surprising to me. Maybe it shouldn’t be.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Yuck.

Conrad Saam:

A little while ago we talked about the law firms that Donald Trump administration has gone after and those that have capitulated. I heard on my favorite political left-leaning Snowflake, liberal pod, save America, that they’re both clients and lawyers leaving the law firm of Paul Weiss. Some of their great partners have left to start their own thing. Big businesses like McDonald’s and Oracle have taken their business elsewhere, and I believe the quote was because we want to hire people who like to fight. If you’re a litigator and you capitulate to the federal government, what are you really doing? Period. The

Gyi Tsakalakis:

End. Stand for something or stand for nothing.

Conrad Saam:

Stand for something or stand for nothing. It’s almost like it’s the theme of this episode. Now let’s stand for pitching ourselves. Gyi, what do we have to announce about Lunch Hour Legal Marketing?

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Well, we are very excited to announce some of the speakers. We’re going to start with the keynote Cassidy Lewis, and you can go back to this episode. Cassidy was on our short list of the people that were at PIL LMA that we absolutely had to have on our marketing dream team. She will be keynoting Lunch Hour Legal Marketing, and we are so grateful and excited to have her kicking the show off in our theme of buy in-house marketing folks for in-house marketing folks. I think Cassidy is going to set the tone for the show and we’re super excited for her to get the energy level up, but we’re very happy that she’ll be leading us off.

Conrad Saam:

And in the spirit of two non in-house legal marketers leading a marketing conference for legal marketers by legal marketers we’re super psyched to announce a really badass panel of CMOs. So one of the things that we wanted to put on the agenda, maybe the first thing that we wanted to put on the agenda was a panel of CMOs, and we’ve got some specific questions for them, but super grateful that John knock Hazel of fame from Fireproof is going to be there. We’ve got two more people coming out. Who are they? Gyi,

Gyi Tsakalakis:

We’ve got DEI Friday from First Call Friday, who? And again, these are people that have been leaders in the in-house marketing community for some time now, and these are the voices that we want to amplify because we’ve seen them speak, we’ve seen what they’ve been publishing online. We’ve heard and seen how they’ve been helping law firms from the in-house side of things. And so super excited to be amplifying Dee’s voice on this panel. We also have Casey by who again has been a long time leader in this space. And again, these are people that when we talk to the in-house community and they’re like, who do you have to have at this show? These are the names that kept coming up, and we are so grateful that they are participating, and I think the CMO panel is going to be one of the highlights of the show.

Conrad Saam:

And at the risk of discouraging you, dear law firm owner of sending your in-house marketing person to this event, I’m going to tell you the last question. We are going to ask the CMO panel, and it’s this, how do you earn, demonstrate and ask for a raise. So we want to work on helping in-house marketing people understand what they need to do to really demonstrate more value and get paid for it, because that’s part of this whole game. So

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Wait, Conrad, hold on a second. The pitch here for the in-house marketing person to their boss is I’m going to the show so that I can learn how to get more money from you.

Conrad Saam:

No, that’s why I started with the word earn. How do you earn the raise? And what we really want is for you to come and learn stuff that will help you earn, deliver so much more value that when you go to your boss six months later, she’s going to very happily say, you’ve done an amazing job and let’s make sure that we recognize that in your paycheck,

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Make your investment in your people in your firm.

Conrad Saam:

We talk about people all the time. Everyone talks about people being their most important asset. This is a very simple way to make that investment in your firm. The other thing that we are half filled out as of now is a series of Ignite talks that are going to be held on the first and second day of the conference. Gyi, can you give a quick overview of what an Ignite Talk is and where our listeners, if they want to be considered for an Ignite Talk where they can apply to do so?

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Five minutes, 20 slides, slides, auto advance every 15 seconds. We’ve already got some really great, some hot Ignite commits that we’re not going to mention yet. We need things to talk about on future episodes, but I think this is going to be something that really sets this conference apart as well. We’ve got some really great experts who have agreed to participate in this. The format’s a lot more fun. It’s a harder format, frankly, it’s hard. I have a lot of respect for the folks that have agreed to do this. And you can sign up or submit whoever you want or nominate yourself at Lunch Hour Legal Marketing dot com. We’re calling them the Fry Legal Talks. You can navigate to the link there, and there’s a form there. We’ll make sure that it’s in the show notes too.

Conrad Saam:

One of the things about these Ignite Talks in the spirit of Ignite, they tend to be out of the box a little unorthodox, and they specifically are looking for people who are new to public speaking. And I will tell you, one of the first ever talks I ever gave about SEO was an Ignite talk. I was sandwiched between Danny Sullivan and Matt Cutz and boy oh boy, I was nervous and it was tough, but it was a fun talk and it is a great way to get on stage. It is stressful, but it’ll be fun. And we’re going to end both of the first days with Ignite Talks.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

We are going to dig that talk up

Conrad Saam:

And we’re going to put it in the show now. We can

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Find it. We can find it. Yeah,

Conrad Saam:

It’s out there. We’ll put it on the, in fact, some of the things that are in there are still relevant today.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Amazing. Let’s take a quick break. So Conrad, happy Pride month to you, and I did notice that you updated your profile pick, and I noticed you also got some feedback about updating your profile pick, and I thought that that would be a great segue into a conversation about positioning, standing for something and standing out. Conrad, what did people say to you about your updating of your profile picture?

Conrad Saam:

Well, I kind of saw this coming, and so after I put the flag underneath my little pretty picture and I did write in the post of when I made the change, some people may see this as kind of empty virtue signaling, and I’m actually going to read the empty virtue signaling that I got. Hey, Conrad Pride month when companies and coworkers morph into rainbow themed clip art and call it activism. Next up, solidarity by Limit Edition socks. I do not have limited edition pride socks, but we’ve talked a lot about standing for something and I think

Gyi Tsakalakis:

We’ve talked about, I will say that we’ve about the support versus activism conversation in the past, and it’s June 4th here. We’re just coming off of all of the Memorial Day tributes. And in that context, I’ve opined and we’ve discussed, there’s the firms that have the generic American flag with Happy Memorial Day with their firm logo on

Conrad Saam:

It.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

There are firms that talk about how they have fallen heroes in their families and their support for the Wounded Warrior Project and that they’ve completed the Murph Challenge. That’s another version of it. And all the things that go along with this. I mean, lawyers aren’t doing Memorial Day sales necessarily. I didn’t see, did you see any lawyer Memorial Day sales half off your divorce on Memorial

Conrad Saam:

Day? That would be so callous, and yet I wouldn’t put it past someone looking for attention. I mean, hey, if you want to link bait, do a Memorial Day sale for your legal services next year, and we promise we will cover it for better or worse. Yeah, I mean, we’ve talked about this quite a bit and there is a critique over the support versus activism, and you’ve specifically talked about this with regards to the American flag.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

And my thing is I’m like, look, support’s great, but if your purpose is to put your logo out there so that you got some holiday awareness for your firm, great. It’s some support. It rings a little hollow. Different people are going to have different views on it, especially when ideally, we’re all thinking that we’re affected by people who have fallen to fight for our freedoms. Some have been affected more than others, candidly, and I’m not like it’s bad. I’m not like support’s bad, but we do a little bit better.

Conrad Saam:

Well, let me ask you this. It may not be bad. You’ve actually argued that it kind of rings hollow, right? So I’ll use myself as an example. I am probably in the month of June going to do nothing from an activism perspective proactively with regards to gay pride. I’m just not. I might march in the parade, I might go to the parade, but maybe is that just too empty and vous to be taken seriously? Is it just kind of empty virtue signaling? Let me put this differently. Let’s assume I’m not going to march in the parade. I’m not going to do anything. I’m just going to throw the flag up there. Net negative or net positive or net nothing.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

I’m going to say net positive. And again, there’s some nuance here because changing your profile picture is a show of support and solidarity for marginalized people, people who have been discriminated against. Call it VIR and call it whatever you want. I don’t think that I’m ever going to call that a negative thing. My point is, is that we should all be thinking about trying to do more. But what you didn’t do was Happy Pride Month. Mockingbird Services, 50% off Happy Pride Month. Mockingbird Marketing. That’s where it starts to for me. And again, everybody’s got to make their own decision. The other one that gets me is when different firms are literally posting the same image with the same message, with a different logo because that’s what their agency did. And to me, when I see that, that does start to become more of a liability than an asset. I guess that’s the context that I’m calling it out in.

Conrad Saam:

Well, let me throw this out to you. As a non hypothetical. My market by and large are people who believe in individual rights regardless of who you want to have sex with. By and large, it is self-serving for me to be leaning into this, right? By and large, I’m in Seattle. There’s no real downside to this, but you could be in a completely different market, geographic market, for example, with Pride Month where there can be a net negative to this, right? Is there a net negative? Let’s say you’re in a market where this is not accepted. You look like the antithesis of the Seattle market. Is there a net negative in standing for something that you believe in? This should a firm make a calculated decision to not pursue or publicize some things that they may privately believe in based on the target market? Right?

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Well, I think this was the same thing that came up before, and I think we’ll get to the more tactical example here in a second. But first of all, you got to be who you are. That’s the most important thing. Now, you also threw in there, are there some things that no one should talk about? I could never say that, right? It comes down to your strategic decision. I mean, we were talking in the pre-show that all of the stuff that’s going on in the Middle East, and there are brands and people that have supported different sides of that issue. There are people that support different sides of the immigration issue. There are people that support different sides of the Memorial Day issue. And my point is, is that the strength of your position is to stand up for those things that you believe in. And so regardless, and I think this is where you’re taking it is, is that if you are in a community where the majority position is not the position that you hold, what an extra powerful way to stand out with your authentic message.

Conrad Saam:

Okay, we’re going to come back to Harry Beckwith who talks about making it very easy for people to make decisions. If you stand for something that is against the grain, you become the standout for, you don’t have to peel the entire market, but you peel very strongly to a small segment of that market. When we come back after the break, going to talk about an example that I had from a prospect who has done a horrendously poor job of this. This is the part

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Of the show where we beg you to leave reviews. Please leave a review on what are we hitting today, apple Podcasts, wherever you podcast, enjoy

Conrad Saam:

The podcast. We’re hitting wherever it’s enjoyable for you.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

We need reviews. We want to hear from you, good, bad. We even take the indifference. Thank you for your listening attention, and we would appreciate any review feedback from you

Conrad Saam:

Unless you are an employee of Legal Talk Network, Mockingbird Marketing or Attorneys Inc. In which case, you are a bum. If you leave us a review,

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Conrad, you have a great story. So we’re talking about telling your story through your marketing, and this is the part where we want to give you a practical example and then tactically discuss what ways we should be improving this position.

Conrad Saam:

So this was a really easy one for me because I went through the process and it was like it happened to me in real time. We’re talking to a prospect who does a very specific issue around veterans. That is their market is the veteran community. They do a lot of referral work, so they get referred a lot of things for this very specific case that impacts veterans. And I’m talking to this guy and their website looks like a law firm website. I had to dig to his bio because I knew the first thing you do if you are looking for someone who works with veterans is you want to vet what vet, no pun intended, whether or not that person is a veteran. It’s important. And so I got to his bio, and yes, he had served in the armed services. Not everyone in the firm had, but certainly the founding partner and the figurehead of the firm had.

But it took me getting to his bio before I realized this, and it was very clear to me that this was a completely missed opportunity. And our last episode that launched today as of this taping, was around positioning, messaging, and branding. And this was a guy who had done a very good job of messaging and positioning himself as a lawyer who worked at a law firm, not someone who was a veteran, who happened to then go to the practice of law. And there are so many ways to do this. You can do this with imagery, you can do this with content, you can do this with your URL. You can obviously do this with your bio. You can lean into it in your LinkedIn profile. We’ve talked about LinkedIn. We had two LinkedIn guests on recently. So there’s so many ways to lean into this. And the thing that caught me, Gyi, is there are two elements of this that make this so very easy. Almost everybody respects and admires and has a sense of gratitude towards veterans. Almost everyone does. It’s not like you were picking

Gyi Tsakalakis:

At least enough to put an American flag up on their LinkedIn profile,

Conrad Saam:

Right? So here’s my thing. The LinkedIn thing, have your picture be of you in service back in the day, right? It’s so easy to do this. And if people do not love someone in the service, they’re probably not going to hire you anyway. You’re not going to mesh. It’s not going to be great client. But the other thing is, this is a very, very specific targeted audience, and it is the easiest thing in the world to say, I have an affinity for this person because they also serve their country in the military. And so it is perfect one-to-one alignment with your messaging, positioning and branding, the who you are, what you stand for, and the target market that you were serving. And so this was a no-brainer to me that for whatever reason, they had, I almost want to say shied away from, it was almost like it felt like the firm was trying to say, we are a law firm and we no longer do that service thing. I kind of moved on in my life from that, and we’re now just a law firm.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

That’s what I wanted to ask you. I wanted to ask you if you thought it was intentional or accidental, that it was buried in his profile.

Conrad Saam:

It’s so obvious amiss that I feel like it was intentional. You can’t be like, I serve veterans and I’m not going to have all of those trappings. I feel like it was deliberate. I feel like it was a person who, and I hope he does not listen to this show, but I feel like it was a person who was like, I did this in the past and this is kind of chapter two, and I’m now a law firm. Or it was just unbelievably lazy work from a generic templated website developer, which

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Is, well, I’ll tell you, obviously I don’t know who this prospect is, but I will tell you what I see a lot. And it’s this effort to appeal to more. And so it’s the opposite of all the things that we talk about in terms of affinity positioning, what makes you unique, your authentic self, yada, yada, yada, is that lawyers feel like, I don’t want to upset somebody who might become a client,

Conrad Saam:

Right?

Gyi Tsakalakis:

And this is, I think going to be, I mean, we’re having a session at the summit about this very issue, but this to me is, this is the root essence of why so many legal marketing campaigns, call them whatever you want, brands messages fall flat is this idea of genericizing, I know that’s not a word, but

Conrad Saam:

Generic genericizing brought to you by Lunch Hour, Legal Marketing,

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Genericizing

Conrad Saam:

Next year in Webster

Gyi Tsakalakis:

In order to appeal to more. And in doing so, you actually appeal to less.

Conrad Saam:

Yeah, that is a very, very Harry Beckwith concept. When you narrow your market, you broaden your appeal. And I think there’s a lot to be said for thinking about appealing to less, especially you got to about your market, but especially you actually can take this one step further in the armed services. You could be like, we work with the Marine Corps, or I only work with people in Air Force. I have that level of specialty and therefore affinity as well. And I think that will actually improve the extent to which a very, very small segment of the market really, really loves you. And that’s the magic that needs to happen there.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

And people keep asking me, what do I do in a world of AI creating all these marketing resources? What do I do in a world of AI managing my media and ai, writing my posts and publishing and writing my comments and all this stuff? And my answer is this. The AI can, I mean, people are going to push back and be like, yeah, I can. And we’re going to talk about custom GPTs at the summit too, and training on your own voice and training on your own publishing, but the messaging of who you are, the experiences you’ve had, it’s the same thing with the 800 pound gorilla coming to town. How do you position against the firm that’s trying to do the mass marketing? And this is the answer. The answer is, is to appeal to a significant enough segment of your audience that is going to be a raving fan of you and your firm.

Conrad Saam:

Let me backtrack a little bit. If you want to appeal to everyone, you can actually do it, but you still have to stand for something. Just stand for something that everyone likes, right? So my example here

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Is good luck.

Conrad Saam:

No, no, no, no, no, I don’t. I think that’s wrong. I think there are things that everyone likes donuts, right? I’m just making sugar is poison. Donuts are fantastic. You can overlook your, they’re delicious. I

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Love, I like donuts too, but I’m in a middle fast though.

Conrad Saam:

But yeah, I’m ruining your day by talking about the delicious

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Red. It’s sensitive.

Conrad Saam:

It’s a Boston cream Dunking donut,

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Insensitive.

Conrad Saam:

Now I’m getting hungry. No, but there are things that are almost universally positive. We talked about the service, right? Gay pride is a great example of something that is definitively not universally positive, but there are those things out there. So as you’re talking, you can stand for your local town.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

That’s the one I come to. I’m like, if someone hates your local community, come on.

Conrad Saam:

No, the only people who really hate your local community are 15 to 22 year olds who are really eager to get the hell out, and then they’re going to come back and live near mom Anyway. So if you miss that audience scene, you saw me? Yeah, Montgomery sucks. So that’s the local. The other one I use often is the don’t kick puppies sing. Everyone loves puppies, and they’re cute, cuddly that everyone loves. These are innocuous. These are things that if you don’t like, you’re an awful person.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

In fact, your dog video on the Lunch Hour, Legal Marketing YouTube channel is still one of the most popular videos of all time,

Conrad Saam:

By the way, new puppy incoming to the SOM household.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Oh boy, we’re going to pump those views.

Conrad Saam:

We are going to use that and use that dog to drive eyeballs. You can’t believe two other things that are kind of have universal, almost universal appeal charities. If you are a person, and therefore a business that is genuinely charitable, it’s hard to hate you, right? It’s hard to hate people who give back. We talked about the service. And the other one I think is an easy one that you can always support is youth. So doing something to help the next generation. These are things that if you don’t like, you’re kind of an awful person. So for all of you who hate puppies, you can stop listening right now.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Yeah, and I think to me, again, it goes back to the idea of there are so many lawyers. There is so much money coming into mass marketing and legal, especially in pi. And the solution to this, the only way you’re going to survive and the AI thing, the only way you’re going to survive is to stand out for something. And so I think if you’re going to take anything away from any of this, it’s that if you’re sitting there listening right now, pull up your website, pull up your social profiles, pull up your email newsletters. If it just looks like everybody else’s stuff, it’s not helping you. Nope, not at all.

Conrad Saam:

You want to try and find a way to end on a positive note.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Positive note. We just inspired people to reflect on improving their positioning, and that if you need help, come to the summit because we are going to talk about this until we are blue in the face. We’ve got lawyers who are doing this that it’s working for with specific examples, specific case studies, specific tactics. That’s what it’s all about.

Conrad Saam:

Yeah, we actually have someone on that note who is going to be speaking about how he has become the biggest champion for his local market and what that has turned into for his business.

Gyi Tsakalakis:

And with that, we must bid you once again farewell. Until next time, Conrad and Gyi, for Lunch Hour Legal Marketing.

Announcer:

Thank you for listening to Lunch Hour Legal Marketing. If you’d like more information about what you heard today, please visit legal talk network.com, subscribe via Apple Podcasts and RSS, follow Legal Talk Network on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, and Instagram

Gyi Tsakalakis:

In addition to the 19th Amendment. What else will be talking about today, Conrad?

Conrad Saam:

So as you, lemme try again. Again, again. I’m going to try again. Again. We have an absolutely,

Gyi Tsakalakis:

Sorry. Didn’t know if you wanted me to go back to the top. Go ahead.

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