How to Structure a Compelling Podcast Speaker Bio That Captivates Audiences

A well-crafted speaker bio is a powerful tool that establishes credibility, engages audiences, and sets the tone for your podcast appearances. Whether you’re a featured guest, an industry expert, or a recurring panelist, your bio is often the first impression podcast hosts and listeners have of you. Here’s how to structure an effective podcast speaker bio that highlights your expertise, personality, and impact.

1. Start With a Strong Opening

Your opening sentence should immediately capture attention and establish who you are. Instead of simply stating your name and title, craft an engaging introduction that encapsulates your expertise and value. For example:

“John Doe is a dynamic technology strategist and award-winning podcast guest known for transforming complex ideas into actionable insights.”

This immediately conveys expertise, credibility, and the speaker’s unique appeal.

2. Make It Easy for the Podcast Producer to Imagine You on Their Show

A great speaker bio not only establishes credibility but also makes it clear why you’d be a valuable guest. Help podcast producers see where you fit by suggesting specific discussion topics you can add insight to. This could include trending industry issues, unique perspectives, or specialized knowledge areas that align with the show’s audience.

For example:

“Alex Carter can speak on topics such as AI-driven legal workflows, the ethics of automation in law, and how small firms can leverage technology to compete with big firms.”

By providing a list of topics or potential episode titles, you make it easier for producers to envision how your expertise fits into their show’s format and themes.

3. Highlight Your Expertise and Experience

Once you’ve grabbed attention, dive into your qualifications. Answer key questions such as:

• What is your professional background?
• What industries do you specialize in?
• What makes you a thought leader in your field?

Concisely summarize your accomplishments. Avoid listing every job you’ve ever had; instead, focus on experience and achievements that would be relevant to the podcast host or their producer. Highlight notable podcast appearances and include links to episodes where listeners can hear you in action. For example:

“With over 15 years of experience in digital marketing, Jane Doe has helped Fortune 500 companies refine their brand messaging and enhance customer engagement. She is the author of three best-selling books on content strategy and talks about the evolution of digital marketing. She’s a frequent guest on top marketing podcasts such as ‘New Solo‘ and ‘Kennedy-Mighell Report’.”

To enhance credibility, include a professional photo and a link to your website where hosts and listeners can learn more about you. Here’s a sample bio from of one of our hosts, and another of a recent guest.

3. Showcase Notable Achievements

Your bio should highlight key accomplishments that reinforce your credibility. These might include:

• Awards and recognitions
• Prestigious podcast appearances
• Books, publications, or notable projects
• High-profile collaborations

For instance:

“John has been featured on leading podcasts such as ‘New Solo’, and ‘Digital Detectives,’ earning accolades for his thought-provoking insights on technology and business strategy.”

This demonstrates authority and builds trust with the audience.

4. Add a Personal Touch

While professionalism is important, adding a personal element makes your bio more relatable. Consider including:

• A unique passion or hobby
• A personal philosophy or mission
• A fun fact that humanizes you

For example:

“When she’s not discussing digital transformation on podcasts, Jane enjoys hiking through national parks and experimenting with gourmet baking.”

This makes you more memorable and approachable.

5. Keep It Concise and Adaptable

Example Short Bio (For Quick Introductions)

“Gyi Tsakalakis is a legal marketing expert and founder of AttorneySync, a resource to help law firm find the clients that will help their business grow. A sought-after host of Lunch Hour Legal Marketing podcast and frequent guest, Gyi brings insights on marketing efficiency and what to expect from your marketing firm. Connect with Gyi at attorneysync.com.”

This bio effectively establishes credibility while keeping things concise and engaging. Most podcast hosts will ask for speaker bios of varying lengths. A good practice is to have three versions:

• Short Bio (50-75 words): A quick snapshot for social media, show notes, or introductions.
• Medium Bio (150-200 words): A detailed version for podcast websites and promotional materials.
• Long Bio (300-500 words): A comprehensive version for speaker pages, press kits, or book jackets.

6. Include a Call-to-Action

Wrap up your bio with an invitation for engagement. This could be a website link, social media handle, or contact details for booking inquiries. For example:

“To hear John’s latest insights on technology and innovation, visit www.johndoe.com or connect with him on LinkedIn.”

Additionally, include a high-quality headshot and direct links to your website and social media profiles to make it easier for podcast hosts and listeners to engage with you.

Final Thoughts

Before reaching out to a podcast, take the time to listen to a few episodes. Not every podcast includes guest interviews, and sending a pitch to a show that doesn’t feature guests can make it clear that you’re mass mailing rather than thoughtfully selecting opportunities. Demonstrating familiarity with the show’s format will increase your chances of getting booked. A compelling podcast speaker bio is more than just a list of credentials; it’s a narrative that showcases your expertise, personality, and impact. By structuring it effectively and keeping it adaptable, you’ll ensure that you leave a lasting impression on podcast hosts and listeners alike.

Good luck crafting a version that best represents your unique voice and accomplishments so you can earn more gigs on podcasts to grow your profile.

If you are looking to being a guest to grow your business, you may also consider sponsoring our legal podcasts to reach lawyers in all areas of practice and las firm ownership. Visit our Sponsorship page and contact Lisa Kirkman, Director Legal Talk Network for more information.

The episode “Marilyn’s Story: A Plea Deal Turned Deadly” from For the Innocent’s second season earned the recognition and featured an emotional and shocking interview with Marilyn Mulero, an exoneree who received a death penalty conviction after taking a plea deal. She spent more than 26 years behind bars for a crime she did not commit because of a false report from two disgraced Illinois detectives and troubling advice from her lawyer. 

Since the podcast’s inception in March 2023, host Michael Semanchik, who serves as The Innocence Center’s Executive Director, has investigated the impetus and aftermath of exoneration cases, inviting exonerees, forensic scientists and lawyers onto the program to put the pieces together.

“If you were to tell me five years ago we’d win an award for the podcast, I would have probably laughed it off,” said Michael Semanchik. “The stories we’ve showcased in For the Innocent are harrowing tales of injustice. Hosting the podcast has been a rewarding way to let the public know about the issues and the importance of the legal work of the Innocence Network’s members and movement.”

Over the past few years, Legal Talk Network has expanded its slate of podcasts about access to justice, offering a broader array of content that addresses critical issues in legal accessibility, rights awareness, and the barriers faced by underserved communities.

“For the Innocent is an important project for Legal Talk Network and our listeners because the law is there to protect citizens,” said Lisa Kirkman, Legal Talk Network’s Managing Director. “The Signal Award honors the work of all the lawyers out there defending the innocent.”

Clio, a cloud-based technology company for lawyers, has supported the podcast since its first episode and continues to empower organizations supporting the wrongfully convicted. 

The Signal Awards Judging Academy includes a well-respected lineup of podcasters like Jay Shetty of On Purpose and Dan Taberski of Hysterical as well as industry leadership including Jonathan Hirsch, VP Global Podcasts at Sony Music, Chris Bannon the SVP, Head of Global Audio at Condé Nast and Jessica Cordova Kramer the CEO & Founder of Lemonada Media.

“This award is a testament to the skill, ingenuity, and vision of its creators,” said Jemma Brown, General Manager of The Signal Awards.

Legal Talk Network recently announced For the Innocent will return with an all-new season in spring 2025. 

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ABOUT LEGAL TALK NETWORK:

Legal Talk Network is a leading podcast network that covers a wide range of legal topics, including legal news, practice management, and career development. With a diverse roster of hosts and guests, the network is committed to advancing the legal profession by providing quality educational content and fostering a community of legal professionals who are passionate about improving the practice of law. For more information about the network and For the Innocent, visit legaltalknetwork.com.

ABOUT THE INNOCENCE CENTER:

The Innocence Center is an independent non-profit law firm dedicated to the release of wrongfully convicted individuals, educating the public on the causes of wrongful conviction, and assisting exonerated individuals as they reenter society. The Innocence Center receives hundreds of innocence claims each year and attorneys at The Innocence Center have been involved in freeing more than 40 wrongfully convicted individuals, who have served more than 600 years in prison collectively, over their careers. Read more at: theinnocencecenter.org.

ABOUT THE SIGNAL AWARDS:

The Signal Awards are mission-focused on uplifting the podcast medium by recognizing the most potent, meaningful and unprecedented audio projects being made today. Now in its third year, entrants to The Signal Awards are reviewed by The Signal Awards Judging Academy, an esteemed collective made up of the architects, instigators and trailblazers of the medium. Once a year, The Academy collectively listens closely to thousands of hours of audio, selecting the strongest work to be elevated to the status of award-winning. For more information, visit signalaward.com.

ABOUT CLIO: 

Clio is transforming the legal experience for all by creating the world’s leading cloud-based technologies for law firms. Firms of all sizes and practice areas use Clio products—Clio Manage, Clio Grow, and Clio Draft—to manage firm operations, streamline billing and payments, automate legal documents, and improve client experiences. As a result, Clio is helping lawyers and their clients better connect throughout the legal process. Read more at: clio.com.

Media Contacts:

Legal Talk Network hosts and listeners had an unforgettable time connecting, learning, and sharing big ideas at Clio’s Cloud Conference in Austin, TX October 7-9, 2024.

With more than 2,500 legal professionals attending in-person and 1,500 tuning in virtually, this year’s “ClioCon” proved to be Clio’s most popular conference to date.

Judge Victoria Pratt emphasized the importance of dignity in her keynote, while Educator Nita Farahany invited attendees to rethink the way they use generative AI.

Atomic Habits Author James Clear also gave a keynote, equipping attendees with the tools and mentality they need to be 1% better every day.

We had the privilege of interviewing more than a dozen thought leaders at the conference and reconnected with old friends.

Listen to the whole slate of interviews on site at Clio Cloud Conference 2024 by subscribing to On the Road, scroll to the end of the page for our Conference Player.

Harness Your Momentum

The next few years promise to be hugely transformative for the legal industry, and attorneys who maintain a focus on their firm’s momentum are bound to have greater success. Clio CEO Jack Newton discussed technology trends and tactics that will help lawyers stay ahead of the game and talked through AI’s impacts in the legal profession in his interview with us. He also gave a sneak peek at Clio’s latest product updates and investments.

On the Road

Harness Your Momentum with Jack Newton — Clio Cloud Conference 2024

Practical Clio Duo Automation for Your Law Firm

One of the biggest splashes at this year’s ClioCon was the launch of Clio Duo, an AI-powered assistant to enhance your practice management software. Christopher Anderson sat down with Jonathan Watson to learn the ins and outs of this new tool and practical use-case scenarios for attorneys and law firm staff. They discuss a day in the life of Clio Duo and highlight some of its powerful features that increase productivity and efficiency in your legal practice. 

Jonathan Watson is the Chief Technology Officer at Clio.

On the Road

Practical Clio Duo Automation for Your Law Firm — Clio Cloud Conference 2024

Deep Dive on the 2024 Legal Trends Report

Joshua Lenon sat down with Un-Billable Hour Host Christopher Anderson and On the Road Host Laurence Colletti to discuss the newest findings in Clio’s Legal Trends Report, just released an hour earlier.

Unsurprisingly, this year’s Legal Trends Report significantly showcased AI’s ever-developing impacts in the legal world. To examine this and other major findings of the report, Christopher Anderson and Laurence Colletti welcome Clio’s Joshua Lenon to unpack and explain new trends. They discuss AI’s many uses and current acceptance amongst lawyers and clients, outline new billing trends, and more. 

Joshua Lenon is an attorney and serves as lawyer-in-residence for Clio, providing legal scholarship and research skills to the cloud-based practice management platform.

On the Road

Practical Clio Duo Automation for Your Law Firm — Clio Cloud Conference 2024

New Technology Requires New Regulation (Let’s talk before it’s too late!)

Panelists Jayne Reardon, Chris Bentley, and Phil Brown explored the urgent need for regulatory adaptation in light of rapid technological advances, as well as the massive civil justice gap that leaves 70% of Americans without necessary legal assistance.

They argued that outdated regulations hinder lawyers from using modern technology, like AI and virtual tools, to serve a broader clientele and enhance access to justice. They debated the barriers posed by traditional licensing, state restrictions, and the “unauthorized practice of law” rules, emphasizing that these regulations often prevent tech companies from reaching the public directly. Their ultimate goal? For legal reforms that prioritize the public interest, advocating for smarter regulation that meets the needs of both clients and attorneys in the digital age.

On the Road

Practical Clio Duo Automation for Your Law Firm — Clio Cloud Conference 2024

How Midsize and Large Law Firms Can Stay Competitive

Differentiating your law firm in a competitive market is essential for success. Dan Lear talks with session speakers Bob Simon, Rob Dickson, and Jenny Dingus about highlights from their panel geared toward midsize and large law firms. In the new age of AI, they discuss the latest implementations for legal software (including Clio Grow), genAI tools, automation, marketing, and more, helping firms understand how to adapt to changing trends.

On the Road

How Midsize & Large Law Firms Can Stay Competitive — Clio Cloud Conference 2024

Business Principles for Unprincipled Times

Guest host Dan Lear from InfoTrack interviewed Mark Britton, the founder of Avvo.com and former Expedia executive, and Clio’s VP of Growth Marketing Alex Shipillo about legal and business leadership. They emphasized the importance of setting clear, ethical business goals and adapting a customer-first mindset, even in traditionally conservative fields like law. The discussion explored the legal profession’s unique culture of pessimism, where risk-spotting is favored over opportunity-spotting, and how this mindset can stymie growth and innovation within law firms.

Britton challenges lawyers to adopt business principles like goal-setting, effective KPI use, and people management, skills often lacking in legal training. He also addressed common pitfalls in legal firm management, like poor communication and insufficient employee feedback, stressing the need for consistent, transparent discussions to avoid end-of-year surprises.

On the Road

Business Principles for Unprincipled Times – Clio Cloud Conference 2024

Law Firm Finances with CPN Legal (Scaling your firm doesn’t have to cause a headache!)

InfoTrack Sales Manager Karolina Sikorska and Account Executive Lydia Malone hosted Peggy Gruenke, founder of CPN Legal, a Cincinnati-based bookkeeping service dedicated exclusively to Clio users. Peggy, a seasoned legal professional, shared her journey of building a family-run business focused on helping law firms manage finances, ensuring compliance, and optimizing cash flow.

She highlighted the importance of working closely with law firms to develop trust and accountability, offering critical insights into legal financial management. Peggy’s passion shines through as she discusses her team’s collaborative culture, their commitment to confidentiality, and even Jasper, the office dog who has become a beloved part of Zoom meetings with clients.

On the Road

Law Firm Finances with CPN Legal – Clio Cloud Conference 2024

How Reisman Award Winners Are Selected & What Makes This Year’s Recipients Special 

To celebrate and reward folks who are utilizing Clio to the maximum degree, the Reisman Awards honor those who stand out with excellence in their legal practice. Laurence Colletti talks with Clio’s Taylor Lecky and Nick Anderson about the selection process, and they also highlight some of this year’s winners. Legal Talk Network was proud to be the media partner in support of the Reisman’s Legal Impact Award. Congratulations to Charleston Legal Access (CLA), established to fill a critical void in the legal community in Charleston, SC, access to justice for the working class and those earning too much to qualify for free legal services yet unable to afford private attorneys. 

On the Road

How Reisman Award Winners Are Selected & What Makes This Year’s Recipients Special — Clio Cloud Conference 2024

A Conversation with Clio’s VP of Legal

From Ireland to Canada, Niamh Pollak’s legal journey is rich, marked by years of experience in private practice and fintech. Joining Clio as it surged into prominence, she now steers the company through a maze of global regulations and privacy standards. In her exclusive interview with Laurence Colletti, she unveiled the pressures of maintaining compliance in a platform that operates across borders, where each jurisdiction—like the EU’s strict GDPR or California’s privacy laws—demands unique approaches. Pollak also shared insights into leading a high-stakes team and her willingness to mentor budding lawyers aiming to break into the in-house world, emphasizing adaptability and AI fluency. For those inspired by tech’s intersection with law, her story is a testament to resilience, precision, and leadership in an ever-evolving industry.

On the Road

A Conversation with Niamh Pollak – Clio Cloud Conference 2024

Listen to the Whole Event Playlist

Legal Talk Network is already looking forward to ClioCon 2025 in Boston, Massachusetts! Will we see you there?

Early Monday morning, SEO and digital marketing experts Gyi Tsakalakis and Conrad Saam hosted a live taping of Lunch Hour Legal Marketing podcast and shared practical tips to help firms grow and market in today’s changing digital landscape. Gyi and Conrad responded live to questions about how attendees could grow their websites, make the most of their social media channels, paid advertising strategies, and differentiate themselves in a crowded region.

Gyi and Conrad each own marketing agencies serving law firms, predominantly personal injury, bankruptcy, family, and immigration, and bring their insights from that work to share with listeners on the Lunch Hour Legal Marketing Podcast. The conversation is often about the underlying algorithms from important keyword bidding sites, local profile tools, and how to effectively use third party tools and your website.

Listen to the whole episode with the live Q&A session on site at LEX Summit.

Lunch Hour Legal Marketing

The LHLM Q&A Extravaganza — LIVE! From LEX Summit 2024

Then Legal Talk Network interviewed Filevine leaders and conference speakers about their upcoming innovations in the software designed to make their platform ever more relevant and useful to firms in more aspects of their matter.

Gyi Tsakalakis talks with Ryan Anderson, Founder and CEO of Filevine to discuss the latest trends in tech and what types of AI tools are actually creating new and better approaches to legal work. They also discuss the variability of KPIs across different practice areas and which ones might be major indicators of success in a law firm. 

On the Road

LEX Summit 2024: KPIs, Industry Trends, and Takeaways with Ryan Anderson

On the Road host Laurence Colletti talks with Filevine Legal Futurist Dr. Cain Elliot about highlights from his AI-centered session on implementing AI to improve the quality and delivery of legal services and increasing profitability. They discuss reliable go-to tools available in the legal tech sphere and what legal professionals should be doing to engage effectively with this quickly evolving technology.

On the Road

LEX Summit 2024: Driving ROI with AI

Laurence Colletti welcomes Jordan Berman to On the Road to discuss her path from attorney to podcaster. Jordan’s interest in both current events and the law drove her to launch Unbiased, a podcast that strives to provide impartial analysis and education on the latest items to hit the news. She describes her podcasting process, social media approach, and her hope to inform her listeners with balanced, factual information on current events.

On the Road

LEX Summit 2024: Jordan Berman of Unbiased Podcast

Predicting your law firm’s revenue each month can be done with an informed approach and the right tools. On the Road welcomes Jacqueline Bretell to hear highlights from her conference session on forecasting business income. Jacqueline offers insights on leveraging your law firm’s metrics to effectively predict earnings and make better, more profitable decisions for your team. 

On the Road

LEX Summit 2024: Profit-ology and the Art of Forecasting

The buying and selling of a law firm is a complicated transaction, and changes in certain areas of the legal industry are driving new sales. Seth Deutsch and Fred Litwiniuk talk through notes from their session on how to approach this process, with insights on both sides of the transaction. They discuss how to assess the strength and saleability of your firm, what data to leverage, and other elements essential to a successful sale.

On the Road

LEX Summit 2024: How to Sell Your Law Firm to Private Equity

CEO of Gold Law, Craig Goldfarb shares simple, easy to execute ideas for attorneys looking to market their law firms in creative ways on our conference-focused podcast On the Road. Getting your law firm’s name in front of prospective clients is essential to your success, but it’s not always easy to make it happen. Craig shares tips for social media, community outreach, newsletters, swag, and more.

On the Road

LEX Summit 2024: Easy Marketing Ideas You Can Implement Today

Sponsoring podcasts can be a wonderful complement to your other demand generation activities because podcasts reach niche audiences makes your buy more efficient.

The trick is creating messaging that gets potential customers to respond quickly, do what you’ve asked them to do, and fits in with the show you’re sponsoring.

Podcast listeners are inclined to reject ads, or really any part of a show that misaligns with their expectations, because listeners often get emotionally attached to their favorite shows and hosts and don’t like when content feels artificial or unoriginal.

Here are some tips to help make sure the message is lined up with the interests of the audience, their intentions for listening to that show, and show’s style. What to expect your ad to accomplish for your campaign:

Branding over demand generation:

While podcast players like Spotify and Apple are doing a lot to connect listeners and advertisers, a listener still has to leave the podcast to interact with your product. Make the message easy to remember so they can find you.

Build awareness:

Use your podcast audio ads and their content to differentiate your product from competitors in ways that are meaningful to your ideal buyer. Audio is really intimate so use that proximity to touch on their pain points and make a difference.

Coordinate and complement:

The podcast ads complement the work you’re doing in your other channels, so elements like taglines should be coordinated, the value proposition should be aligned, and landing pages should be inside your site to reflect your branding.

How to structure your ad

Length:

The ads on Legal Talk Network are 30 seconds long. That’s only about 75 words. In an effort to be fair to all sponsors, we try really hard to keep them all the same length. When you deliver a script that’s 200 words, we’re going to have to trim that down. And you might have to take that back for more approvals. Here are some sample scripts to get you started.

Occasionally you’ll hear a 60-second ad that is an exclusive option we allow for one of the four show sponsors if they can provide enough content to justify that information becoming a featured part of the show, at an extra cost. We call those Branded Content Features. Here are some samples of the Branded Content Feature we did with Clio in 2023.

Do not start with a rhetorical question:

Just don’t. Everyone tries it. It doesn’t work, partly because everyone tries it so it’s become a an ad cliche. The real reason to not use rhetorical questions in an ad is because it is easy for the listener to answer “no,” and tune out the rest of your message.

A common rhetorical question goes along the lines of, “Do you ever have problems like my product solves?” Starting there means the whole script is going to be self-oriented rather than client-oriented. All clients and prospects are thinking much more about themselves than you, our lovely sponsor. You will get a lot closer to them if you start with a strong and maybe even startling fact or a point of relevance for your client.

Rhetorical questions also take up a remarkable amount of that 30 seconds you have in your ad. Don’t waste it; just get to the point.

Draw the listener in by focusing on THEIR goals rather than your own:

When GoDaddy came to us to promote their new affinity product for business lawyers, we had to take a minute to calibrate how domain name management was relevant to attorneys. If we hadn’t stopped to think about the listeners’ reaction, we would have just read the templated script that the corporate team sent over, listing tech benefits. That approach might appeal to technology enthusiasts, but could easily be deemed as unimportant by busy attorneys. We had to draw them into the logic and help them see how working with GoDaddy would benefit their clients.

The hosts at Above the Law’s Thinking Like a Lawyer, Joe Patrice and Kathryn Rubino, did a great job reflecting the listeners’ experience of wondering about the client’s connection to their jobs, and then cementing the relationship. We wrote it in a fast-paced style that suited Joe’s natural delivery, and invited Kathryn to pop in with another facet of the listeners’ reaction that was true to the dynamic fans of the show enjoy about them. GoDaddy on Above the Law’s Thinking Like a Lawyer, August 2022

Use action words:

Change passive tenses of words that end in -ing like ‘automating’ and ‘analyzing’ to verbs to propel the listener to action. Action verbs at the beginnings of sentences are stronger and more memorable, and take up fewer words in your ad.

Compare these two sentences:

“SuperTech.AI is the greatest tool for automating and analyzing your briefs, and helps you reduce time and effort.”

“Automate brief analysis easily with SuperTech.AI to save time.”

Take out clauses so your sentences can start strong. It is not strong when you say “If you’re ready to revolutionize your practice, then you can call us.” Instead, just start right at the meat: “Call us today to revolutionize your practice.”

Have a strong offer:

You probably work pretty closely with sales and know what deals and promos have the best return on investment. A 20% discount is fairly common and likely available from various vendors. When podcasting, because you have the permission to be in an intimate space with the listener, you’ll be most successful when you craft an offer that both reflects the benefit that niche audience cares about, and is distinctive enough for them to remember it quickly. The ideal client may actually respond to a secondary or experience offer more than the dollar and cents offer.

For example, the Apple Card caught my attention because I was actively looking for a new card and weighing several cashback offers. When they said I could get 3% back on most of my purchases without any games or fees, I was interested. The specific cashback percentage was one thing, but the idea that I wouldn’t have to play any silly games with buying categories is what actually motivated me to go find out more right away.

Think about the real experiences of your ideal buyer, what they care about in both the objective offer and the experience, remove what they’re annoyed by, and make it easy for them to say ‘yes’.

Say your name!

Repetition is a central concept in audio. Certainly you don’t want to go overboard, but because listener’s attention may pop in and out, you want to say your name between 3-6 times in the ad. Put yourself in the listeners’ earphones for a moment: they may have a lot going on in their immediate environment. They definitely also have a lot of other solutions they could use to solve the problem you also solve. If they have a functional practice management system and you sell a practice management solution, they might hear “…practice management system…” and think “oh, yep, I’ve got one of those!” and get back to what they were already thinking about.

Your job as the sponsor is to break through some of that clutter to differentiate your product. Your name is a great way to do that. Introduce yourself each time like you might at a cocktail party. You should try to get it into the first sentence. It will certainly be in your web address at the end. Get it in at least one or two more times in the body as well.

Lee Rawles, Host of Modern Law Library and Talk Justice, starts off right away with the name for Civille and then provides context. She reinforces the name a few times throughout, which is doubly important for a client with a homonym. In this case, we opted to spell out the client’s name at the end as an additional nod. Civille, May 2024

Have a clear destination for listeners:

Have a URL that can both be spoken clearly and HEARD clearly. We had a sponsor with a web address that had several soft vowels that when spoken became a homonym for a completely different type of product. Others had a URL with dashes or wanted us to say a web address with multiple slashes. Names derived from another language or need to be spelled all create a delay in understanding, which reduces the listeners’ ability to respond quickly to your offer.

In audio, we don’t have the benefit of also seeing the words to validate the way they sounds. If you need to get another domain that sounds simpler, it could be a very valuable $17 investment in the success of your campaign. Then point that friendly address to your more complex-sounding UTM or landing page. Stafi, a legal staffing agency originally wanted to include a URL with a name that wasn’t their name and sounded actually like a direct competitor’s name. We encouraged them to use their alternate URL and then re-direct it to the page they wanted people to land on. Here is Christopher Anderson on Un-Billable Hour for Stafi, April 2024:

Make the most of your host’s personality in your scripts!

Leave room in the script for the host to be authentic to their style:

New Solo’s long-time host Adriana Linaras brought her energy and emotive style to talk in an authentic way about Clio’s findings in their Legal Trends Report. Her delivery is bright and genuine and reflects the experience of Clio’s target audience.

If the client had insisted on an exact replica of the script as approved by the legal department, they would not have gotten the benefit of Adriana’s personality and would have been less effective at drawing in the listener. Giving the host a little latitude on the language and delivery enhances your investment. Clio on New Solo, June 2023

Differentiate your message to work to the host’s strengths:

CosmoLex, a ProfitSolv Company, wanted to be on both Legal Toolkit with Jared Correia, and on Un-Billable Hour with Christopher Anderson. We wanted to communicate the same brand messaging and benefits to listeners, but they have completely different personalities. One script wasn’t going to work for both.

We used the same basic structure prioritizing the simplicity of CosmoLex and included all the appropriate branding, but let Jared have more fun with a sarcastic side comment about not leaking money. Christopher’s script was a straighter delivery emphasizing the business efficiency of the product because that’s aligned with what listeners are seeking from his show.

Interact with the host about your product:

It is important for your host to know your product. We always ask our hosts about the sponsor before the sponsor signs just in case they aren’t familiar or have a past experience. I’ve had several sponsors do a demo of a new product with a host.

Often our hosts are very savvy in the legal tech space so they’re already familiar, but a few have been able to get some more depth from that interaction with the product.

Gyi Tsakalakis and Conrad Saam, hosts of Lunch Hour Legal Marketing recorded an about Lawmatics, a company they know so well that Gyi shares with the audience he also invests in the company, in June 2023

We do not, however, endorse products. Legal is a very small space and you wouldn’t want to be the un-endorsed technology in a show’s line-up, so we won’t create that situation for any of our potential sponsors. Our sponsorships, unless otherwise noted, are not exclusive so you could be next to a close competitor. See above about differentiating your product and having a good offer to make the most of your space.

Structure your whole year of messaging

When we book new sponsors, a year feels like a long time. That year allows the core audience to get familiar with the solutions you provide or benefits of your service, and it allows you to touch those listeners who are new or are trying the show.

You want use the whole year though to share different facets of your service. We can map out three different versions of your ads, record them all together so they have a cohesive sound, and then rotate them monthly or every six weeks.

Other sponsors will go with a seasonal strategy as in “We always sell more test prep services in the three months leading up to the Bar exam” so the ads promoting that service will be scheduled for November – January to pick up February testers, and April – June for the July testers.

Reach out and we’ll plan your campaign together

I’d love to talk with you more about how sponsoring a Legal Talk Network podcast could help you connect very efficiently with your legal buyer.

Let’s chat! Feel free to find a time on my calendar that suits your schedule or email me at lkirkman@legaltalknetwork.com.

Exoneree, Zavion Johnson and others tell their fight for freedom stories in Season Two of Legal Talk Network’s For the Innocent Podcast. Real men and women spend decades in prison every year for crimes they didn’t commit. The 12-episode series will premiere on Legal Talk Network on April 11 with its first episode.

“No human endeavor is perfect. Even with the best intentions and technology, our criminal justice system still wrongfully accuses and convicts innocent people. It is important to share these stories so we can fix what needs to be fixed” said Laurence Colletti, Producer and Writer of For The Innocent Podcast.

For the Innocent episodes are grouped by topic featuring an exoneree telling their own story. Host Michael Semanchik skillfully simplifies case details in a narrative tone that is easy to understand and engages the audience.

Hear heartbreaking first-person accounts of exonerees Zavion Johnson, who was convicted of killing his 4-month old daughter and served 17 years in prison for a crime that should have been treated as a tragic loss of a baby; Angela Garcia, who was bullied into a false guilty plea of arson for a fire that killed her family; Guy Miles and Luis Vargas, who went to prison because eyewitnesses misidentified them; and Marilyn Mulero, who faced the death penalty because of poor legal advice from her attorney. 

Then legal and criminal experts help us understand and analyze what went wrong in these cases. Expert guests provide insights about our criminal justice system and how these convictions become a terrible reality. Season 2 legal experts include Justin Brooks, board member of The Innocence Center; Matthew Cooke, an Oscar nominated filmmaker; Scott Budnik, a Hollywood producer, Wayne Little, former LA Prosecutor; and David Rudolf, famed criminal defense attorney from Netflix’s documentary, ‘The Staircase.’

“I’m thrilled Legal Talk Network continued to help us tell the stories of those convicted wrongfully in Season 2,” said Michael Semanchik, Executive Director of The Innocence Center, and host of the podcast. “The stories of the men and women told in the podcast are some of the gravest miscarriages of justice.  It is imperative to learn from the past mistakes our criminal legal system has made.  Legal Talk Network has been a great partner in our mission to educate the public on the causes of wrongful convictions.”

Junk Science Episodes:

In the Junk Science series of episodes, For the Innocent Podcast delves into debunked forensic sciences that convict people wrongfully. As we look backwards in time, we examine how those sciences initially gained prominence only to lose it later. But many of those who were convicted by junk science still remain behind bars.

1. Zavion’s Story: Zavion Johnson spent 17 years in prison on a charge of Shaken Baby Syndrome, arrested on the day of his infant daughter’s funeral. 

2. Bite Mark Evidence: All the rage in the 1980’s, bite mark evidence was partially responsible for convicting Ted Bundy. There were inaccuracies from the beginning but it gained widespread institutional support, making it difficult to challenge these cases in court. 

3. Shaken Baby Syndrome: Faulty from the beginning, this theory was supported by a circular reasoning flaw. Even though prosecutors were trying to save children from abuse, they were also sending innocent and grieving parents to prison. It was not until home videos of children dying from short playground falls did the medical community begin to reverse its thinking.

4. Undoing the Damage: This episode wraps up the series focusing on the impact of debunked sciences and what has been learned in the criminal justice system.

In Season One of For the Innocent, former NFL football player Brian Banks and celebrated attorney Marty Tankleff, both exonerees, discuss their experiences of being falsely accused and how they were able to thrive following a wrongful conviction.

For the Innocent Podcast, produced by Legal Talk Network, is available now on all major podcast platforms, including Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Click here for Photos, Bios, and Media Resources about For the Innocent Podcast and Legal Talk Network.

About Legal Talk Network:

Legal Talk Network is a leading podcast network that covers a wide range of legal topics, including legal news, practice management, and career development. With a diverse roster of hosts and guests, the network is committed to advancing the legal profession by providing quality educational content and fostering a community of legal professionals who are passionate about improving the practice of law. For more information visit legaltalknetwork.com.

About The Innocence Center:

The Innocence Center is an independent non-profit law firm dedicated to freeing the innocent from prison, educating the public on the causes of wrongful conviction, and assisting freed clients as they reenter society. Launched in 2023, the Board and Staff have decades of innocence work under their belt, all having worked at the California Innocence Project as a staff or faculty member.  Collectively, the group has freed more than 40 people who have served 560+ years in prison for crimes they did not commit.  The team has been responsible for getting a dozen laws changed to prevent future injustices and make it easier to free the innocent.

About Clio:

Clio is transforming the legal experience for all by creating the world’s leading cloud-based technologies for law firms. Firms of all sizes and practice areas use Clio products—Clio Manage, Clio Grow, and Clio Draft—to manage firm operations, streamline billing and payments, automate legal documents, and improve client experiences. As a result, Clio is helping lawyers and their clients better connect throughout the legal process. 

Media assets available at: legaltalkenetwork.com/media

Media Contacts:

Lisa Kirkman
Director of Partnerships & Marketing, Legal Talk Network
lkirkman@legaltalknetwork.com

Michael Semanchik
Host, For the Innocent Podcast and Executive Director, The Innocence Center
mike@theinnocencecenter.org

Laurence Colletti
Producer and Writer, For the Innocent Podcast
lcolletti@legaltalknetwork.com

MONTEREY, CA — SideBar podcast on The Legal Talk Network welcomes Northeastern University Law Professor Wendy Parmet, the Faculty Director of the University’s Center for Health Policy and Law and author of Constitutional Contagion: Covid, the Courts and Public Health.

Professor Parmet visit marks the Sidebar podcast’s first anniversary on Legal Talk Network. “The Sidebar team has worked incredibly hard and covered a lot of ground in their first year,” said Legal Talk’s Director of Partnerships Lisa Kirkman. “Cohosts Law Dean Mitch Winick and Law Dean Jackie Gardina had a vision for tackling big ideas about Constitutional Rights in the context of today’s political issues, and they’ve brought their show along quickly, and deserve all the important guests they’ve been able to book. positive attention they’re getting from listeners.”

Cohost and Law Dean Jackie Gardina explained, “The COVID pandemic exposed weaknesses in our public health system and exposed the lack of trust in science and government. Professor Parmet is able to help us better understand the change in the Supreme Court’s interpretation of public health law that had the effect of overturning 100+ years of public protection by granting religious ideology priority over science.”

Listen to the full episode:

SideBar

When Religious Ideology and Public Health Collide – We All Lose! with Wendy Parmet

Law Dean Mitch Winick, cohost of SideBar, noted that “we can go back to 1905 in the US Supreme Court case of Jacobson v Massachusetts in which the Supreme Court upheld the government’s right to require vaccinations during a smallpox epidemic. This was the controlling law for over 100 years until recently. One of the questions being discussed in this episode of SideBar is whether the apparent religious ideology of the current Supreme Court is influencing their legal rulings when deciding between public health protection vs. individual religious beliefs.”

Professor Parmet is a leading scholar on how the courts have influenced public health in this country. She is a legal expert on health, disability and public health law and directs Northeastern University’s Center for Health Policy and Law. She also holds a joint appointment with the University’s School of Public Policy and Urban Affairs in recognition of her national leadership in interdisciplinary thinking and problem-solving on issues related to public health.

To listen to Professor Parmet’s SideBar episode with law deans Jackie Gardina and Mitch Winick, hear previous episodes, read our blog, learn about future guests, and to contact the co-hosts with ideas, comments, or questions, go to www.sidebarmedia.org.

Developing a podcast is not as simple as the first idea that comes to mind. There are many steps to get a podcast that is valuable and engaging for the audience, and fulfills the goals you as the show owner have for it.

This is a general process we go through with new show production clients to develop a show that’s worthy of your time to make it and the listeners’ time to hear it.

Goal & Audience Definition:

Your team thinks through its goals, identifies audience, and comes up with a concept that would serve the audience. Those sound small, but they’re everything. All your later decisions will become clearer when you have the audience and goals within reach because you know what you want and what your audience wants from you.

• Focus on goals and audience only at this point: leave the details for later like show names, format, and the host. Those will fit your show vastly better once you know who you’re talking to.
• Word to the wise: your audience is NOT “everyone.” The narrower and tighter you can get about who will benefit from your subject matter, and why they are listening, the better and more relevant your show will be.
• Coming up with a goal for your show and a clear image of your listeners will become the basis of the promise you deliver on to your audience.
• Here’s another blog post on the talk I gave in March 2023 to the Chicago Bar Association’s members interested in developing a podcast. I point out the merits of defining the promise you’re making to your listeners, then focusing on and delivering to your niche audience.

Workshopping:

We would facilitate a workshop/discussion with your team from the responses above to talk through your responses and take a good hard look at:

• The show’s mechanics (ie., 2-hour long episodes or writing your own music or having 5 people on mic each episode is probably too much)
• How often you can reasonably record
• Refine the vision of your audience
• Explore and deepen your topics
• Discuss the merits of any hosts you may have in mind. We’ll ask things like:
• are they are good on the mic?
• Will they be embraced by the audience?
• Do they have any community or social media or publishing following we can build on?
• Will they be engaging with guests?
• When are they available?
• Workshopping means things you brought into the workshop will likely change so as we talk through it, so it’s important to not be overly-protective of ideas, and have the discipline to modify ideas to fit the new information we’ve uncovered.

Hosts:

Your team should identify one or two possible hosts. Hosts have the job of moving through the content so they have to be able to take direction and be reliable on multiple dimensions. They have to be strong enough and centered enough to push back on run-on guests when necessary, without being argumentative (unless that’s central to your format). They have to also be an ally for the listener.

When we did our Listener Survey in 2022 and asked why listeners listened to a podcast, they ranked the topic as the most important. They were interested, searched, and were motivated to listen.

When we asked listeners to rank the most important element in their favorite shows, they said the host was the most important. The podcast format is very intimate with listeners and the listener has a lot of choices. The listener is going to choose the host who both talks about the thing they’re interested in, and they feel the most affinity for and enjoy spending time with.

A smart person can talk about your topic. A credible and engaging host can keep listeners coming back for more of your show and help you fulfill your goals.

• We would invite your intended hosts for a sound check.
• If you intend to have two hosts, you’ll want a chemistry test on air between them. Listen to Gyi Tsakalakis and Conrad Saam on our Lunch Hour Legal Marketing podcast or Joe Patrice and Kathryn Rubino on Thinking Like a Lawyer for examples of good chemistry between hosts.
• We’ll identify any areas needed for additional training like mic technique, and talk with them about interviewing skills or refine their delivery.
• The specific guidance offered at this stage will depend on what they need as people and what the format of the show demands.

Topic Development:

From the discussion, your team would identify possible topics and outline guests to go with those if you want to bring in guests.

• If you want to end up with 12 episodes, recommend coming up with 30+ topic ideas to start with. 
• If you’ve thought of a topic, chances are high others who work in your field have also thought of it and written about it, so push on those ideas and see what new dimension you can add to the landscape or what new perspective you can bring to your specific audience.
• Be really critical in asking yourself “has this been done before?”
• Ideas are not so precious: you came up with these, so you can probably come up with some more. They also will get revised and modified so be flexible.

Test Episode:

Now that you have your topics and hosts, have thought deeply about your audience, we can move to creating a Test Episode:

• This is an 8-10 minute version of your intended format on a small scale topic with your hosts and a guest who is willing to play along. This usually doesn’t get aired.
• We’d help you write the script (intros, outtros, transitions, closing, etc.), record, edit, and listen to it all together to offer constructive feedback.
• Be prepared for the test to reveal some important holes and flaws. We’ve had these test episodes change the whole format and dynamic of a show once we put them together. 
• This test episode saves you money and heartache later. The idea of “we’ll try it and figure it out as we go along” is really expensive if your production isn’t meeting the goals you have for it.

Scheduling:

After agreeing on what to keep and what to change in the show, we map out a schedule for recording the slate of episodes:

• Topic sequence
• Guest booking
• Recording schedule
• Editing time
• Distribution dates
• Promotional calendar

Naming and Imaging:

Somewhere in there we’ve come up with a show name and will develop artwork and marketing materials. The marketing plan depends deeply on your goal and where to find your targeted audience.

Production:

Once we have a show we’re happy with and can sustain together, agree on a budget, we’ll help you schedule your guests, record the episodes and distribute.

Debriefing:

After they’re in the can, we should have a debrief/recap/planning session to decide where to go in the coming year based on what’s working. 

Take a look at our other consulting offerings: legaltalknetwork.com/consulting.

Legal Talk Network, the leading legal podcast network, announces the launch of a new format on the long-running “ABA Law Student Podcast,” produced in partnership with the American Bar Association’s Law Student Division since 2016. The first episode of the 2023-2024 season “Don’t Let Law School Crush Your Creativity” released Monday, September 18 on Legal Talk Network with three new hosts. The new format features two Law Student Hosts and a Faculty Host who will bring their varied interests to the listeners, and then discuss their findings in a recap.

“By reformatting the show to foster a true team dynamic, we aim to better serve our listeners by tapping into a broader perspective and developing a more consistent, long-term voice,” said “ABA Law Student Podcast” Producer Evan Dicharry. He conceived the new format and developed it with the Editorial team at ABA’s Law Student Division. 

“Our unique hosting model and approach to communicating with law students ensures we are providing the type of advice and inspiration that students will actually find helpful during their law school journey,” said Karen Perez-Garcia, Sr. Specialist Digital Content at ABA’s Early Career Strategy Group. “It’s exciting to be able to deliver this in podcasts because we know it’s more efficient for law students to fit the content in with their other commitments.”

Todd Berger, Professor of Law at Syracuse University School of Law has been a guest on Legal Talk Network podcasts over the years and will now serve as the Faculty Host of the Law Student Podcast. His role is to provide context to the discussions and interviews the Student Hosts research and bring back to the show. “It’s always great to work with talented students who bring intellect, creativity and diverse perspectives. Leah and Chay do just that, and we have a season of great episodes ahead.” 

Chay Rodriguez, in her third year of law school at Atlanta’s John Marshall School of Law, works full-time at a prominent entertainment company and attends law school part-time. As a mid-career student, she will bring a practical eye to the idealism that often attracts younger students to the discipline. “Before taking advantage of the opportunity to study the law,” Chay wrote in her application, “I assumed it was one-dimensional, like a hammer, used only one way. Now, I know it is more like a Swiss army knife, multi-dimensional, and I am fascinated by how attorneys and legal scholars interpret the law and use it to meet an end.”

Student Host Leah Haberman is a 3L at Columbia Law School planning to work in an area of public interest after graduation. “I’m excited to have the conversations on ABA Law Student Podcast that I wished we were having at law school!” Leah brought the first story for this season to explore how writing inside and outside of law school are markedly different. In her case, that difference was a frustrating realization because she identified personally as someone who wrote well.  

Leah invited Michelle Falkoff, Clinical Professor of Law and Director of Communication and Legal Reasoning Program at Northwestern to discuss how to balance that need to deliver in specific formats against the personal need to maintain a personal drive to feel creative. “I want my students to feel empowered by their writing,” said Professor Falkoff. “I want them to feel they are making conscious choices at every level of their writing so they can make their work beautiful.”

The Student Hosts were selected through an extensive audition process: 38 hopefuls sent in three-minute audio clips discussing a legal topic they were personally passionate about. After surviving the early cuts, all three went through a rigorous process to think strategically about the stories they wanted to bring to the audience, microphone training, and a chemistry test to make sure they not only worked well together but sounded good and energetic together. 

Upcoming episodes of the 2023-2024 season of “ABA Law Student Podcast” are planned to include discussion of unorthodox career options for lawyers, how to commit to your passions effectively without burning out, trends in legal practice, and changes in the industry. 

“I’m excited we’ve pulled together such a talented and engaged team with Leah, Chay, and Todd, and look forward to furthering and elevating the conversation with today’s law students,” said Dicharry.

About Legal Talk Network

Legal Talk Network is a leading podcast network that covers a wide range of legal topics, including legal news, practice management, and career development. With a diverse roster of hosts and guests, the network is committed to advancing the legal profession by providing quality educational content and fostering a community of legal professionals who are passionate about improving the practice of law. For more information visit legaltalknetwork.com.

About ABA Law Student Division

ABA Law Student Division is the largest professional student organization in the country with 43,000 members. The Editorial Board of the ABA Law Student Division oversees and writes content for Student Lawyer and the production of ABA Law Student Podcast.

Legal Talk Network, the leading legal podcast network, announces the launch of ‘California Innocence Project Podcast:’ stories of innoce men and women convicted and spent decades in prison for crimes they did not commit. 

“The injustice suffered by so many innocent people is heartbreaking,” said Legal Talk Network Executive Producer Laurence Colletti. “I simply had no idea how often wrongful convictions occurred. Working with the California Innocence Project on this podcast has been an incredibly humbling experience. Learning about their fights for freedom has given me new inspiration about the practice of law. The work they do truly matters.”

California Innocence Project Podcast’s episodes will include first-hand accounts from the exoneree, as well as discussion on the common ways innocent people end up in the system including DNA, false confessions, and junk science. Legal Talk Network sourced experts in evidence, prosecutors, lawyers, documentarians, and the exonerees themselves. Exoneree stories will include football player Brian Banks and Amanda Knox. 

“We are pleased to find a partner in Legal Talk Network who has taken the time and care to get the word out about the people trapped in a wrongful conviction, and explain the work our attorneys did to free them,” said Michael Semanchik, Managing Attorney for California Innocence Project, and host of the podcast. “We hope that by talking about the exonerees, we can raise awareness of the need for criminal justice reform and inspire others to get involved in this important work.”

The California Innocence Project works to free innocent people wrongfully convicted of crimes through the work of staff attorneys, law student interns, and pro bono attorneys. Since its founding in 1999, the organization has exonerated 38 individuals who collectively spent hundreds of years in prison for crimes they did not commit. 

“The California Innocence Project Podcast on the Legal Talk Network will provide an invaluable platform for the public to understand the struggles and victories of exonerees,” says Jack Newton, CEO and Founder of Clio. “It’s time for society to confront the injustices that persist within our legal system and work together to create a more equitable future for all.

By providing
our software, we hope to contribute to a more efficient legal process and empower them to
reach even more individuals in need. By giving a voice to these stories, we can help prevent
future wrongful convictions.”

Early episodes of California Innocence Project Podcast: 

• Uriah Courtney: wrongfully identified and convicted of kidnapping and rape in 2005. Uriah served eight years before the victim’s clothing was re-tested for DNA, and the resulting DNA pointed to the real perpetrator who went on to commit additional crimes that landed him in the national DNA database.
• Brian Banks: wrongfully convicted in 2002 of rape at age 17 after being wrongly accused by a high school acquaintance. Brian was pressured into a plea deal only to have his accuser recant her testimony after his release. 
• Martin Tankleff: wrongfully convicted in 1999 of murdering his parents. Tankleff was coerced into falsely confessing to the crime after hours of intense questioning and sentenced to 50 years to life in prison.

California Innocence Project Podcast, produced by Legal Talk Network, is available now on all major podcast platforms, including Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

About Legal Talk Network:

Legal Talk Network is a leading podcast network that covers a wide range of legal topics, including legal news, practice management, and career development. With a diverse roster of hosts and guests, the network is committed to advancing the legal profession by providing quality educational content and fostering a community of legal professionals who are passionate about improving the practice of law. For more information visit legaltalknetwork.com.

About the California Innocence Project:

The California Innocence Project is a non-profit organization based in San Diego, California, working to free innocent people who have been wrongfully convicted. Since 1999, the Project has exonerated 38 people who have spent years in prison for crimes they did not commit. The California Innocence Project is dedicated to ensuring that the innocent are freed, the guilty are held accountable, and the justice system is fair for all. For more information visit: californiainnocenceproject.org.

About Clio:

Clio is transforming the legal experience for all by creating the world’s leading cloud-based technologies for law firms. Firms of all sizes and practice areas use Clio products—Clio Manage, Clio Grow, and Lawyaw—to manage firm operations, streamline billing and payments, automate legal documents, and improve client experiences. As a result, Clio is helping lawyers and their clients better connect throughout the legal process. 

Media assets available at: legaltalkenetwork.com/media

Media Contacts:

Paige Locke
Marketing Manager
Legal Talk Network
plocke@legaltalknetwork.com

Michael Semanchik
Managing Attorney
California Innocence Project
michaelsemanchik@gmail.com  

Laurence Colletti
Executive Producer
Legal Talk Network
lcolletti@legaltalknetwork.com 

I’m new to legal, but long in media experience. My role at Legal Talk Network is primarily sponsorship sales and working with show partners (like the CBA and ABA) to produce and deliver legal podcasts.  I end up having a lot of conversations with attorneys like you who want to start their own podcasts. 

And we say ‘no’ to them. A lot.

There are some issues that come up repeatedly and I want to share a few of these with you. Perhaps with this session, our experience can save you all some frustration.

I have a few items about what works, and what doesn’t… 

First some Don’ts…

Rather, don’t talk and talk and talk and talk.

Just because you have a microphone does not mean people have to, or want to, listen to you. 

Organize your thoughts so people can follow the structure of your point or the progression of questions to a guest.

Edit your thoughts. That means take stuff out, don’t polish it like your acceptance speech. Less is more.

Conrad and his co-host Gyi Tsakalakis work with a tight show plan. They are deeply knowledgeable about these marketing tools so there are tons more things they might say about the marketing tools. But for the sake of the listener, the hosts take that extra minute to step back, so they can prioritize the most important ideas the listeners care about. 

It’s your ability as a host to filter and curate the subject matter, or share a specific point of view that creates value to the listeners, and builds your reputation as a thought leader worth listening to. 

Meaning, don’t just sit back and listen to your guest’s answers. As a host, you are not a listener. Ask your guests meaningful questions. Ask things that listeners won’t find in other interviews or articles the guest may have written.

Our team recently worked with a podcasting client who was good at getting good guests. Then the hosts sat back and let the very good guests talk. They said “we didn’t want to get in their way.” 

Their approach was to ask a broad question and then effectively take their hands off the wheel. The guests rambled on and on and on.

Then the guests started to sound desperate. You can almost hear them thinking “am I saying the right stuff? Is this what you wanted? This can’t be right. Should I keep going?“

As host, you are the proxy for the listener. The host can and should do things the listener CANNOT do!

• Interrupt a long, off-track ramble. 
• Stop to provide clarification or fill in a gap for the sake of the listener.
• Ask them to explain jargon or abbreviations. Again, you’re there to help the listener.
• Or call them on their crap. 
• Draw out something special from your guest. For example, ask them a question you ask all your guests so you have multiple points of view on a single, central idea that’s unique to your show.

Many guests who are willing to interview have a book to promote or are otherwise on a circuit, and they end up saying the same things in multiple settings. That’s boring for them and if a listener has heard them on another podcast, they’re going to hear the same stories, which undervalues your show.

As host, you can create a reason to knock them off-script. Make them laugh or offer something that hasn’t been heard anywhere else, or say “huh, I never thought about that.” 

• We have a host, Jared Corriea of Legal Toolkit, who always plays a dumb game with his guests. The game is a recurring feature on the show so listeners know to expect it, and the guest gets to have a reason to be off-script and have a laugh.
• Adriana Linares of New Solo wants to show another side of her guests and often asks them about wine or gardening or their hobbies. After that exchange, the listener gets to learn something special about the guest they wouldn’t have gotten anywhere else. Result: your show is now special-er.
• Managing a guest builds YOUR bond with the audience.  

Ask narrow questions so you can keep the guest to one, trackable idea. You can always ask follow-up questions. But if you start with a broad question, it can be hard to get to the heart of what you really want out of them. Worse, it can be hard to stop them once they’ve set out. 

Here is a question to avoid because it’s overly-broad: “Before we start, tell us a little about how you got into the area of this-that-and-the-other.”

I heard a host let a guest ramble on for NINE minutes with his resume rundown in a recent episode. That gives the guest carte blanche on your listener’s dime. A guest is never going to edit themselves without you guiding them to what’s important.

The guest did not make the same promise you did to deliver relevant info that’s consistent with your show’s brand. You as the host are the only one who can keep the conversation on track. 

Instead, ask about a specific element of their work, or ask a question that sounds like a statement such as “I thought it was really interesting how you were in this area but then moved over to that area. Tell us about how your experience there informs your work now.”

You make an implied promise to your audience when you send a podcast out into the world. 

Just like hosting a party, it’s implied you will have refreshments at things you invite people to. And it is implied that you will not be a rambling, incoherent, self-indulgent mess. That sort of poor hosting in either a party setting or a podcasting setting does not build your reputation. In this analogy, you don’t need the extra food or drinks – but the people you invite in do. They need the structure and curation that a good host provides.

The audience is what makes your show real. If you don’t engage their interest and provide some structure to the discussion and a reason for them to listen to your next episode, you’re just a guy in a closet talking to himself. Take the time to make a plan for being a better host.

Don’t Ignore Your Promise

Promise  – I keep using that word because it’s important and it differentiates the randos in a closet from real thought leaders. Your promise is what you do to use the audience’s time well and provide something relevant. Sometimes adding structure is a little predictable and that’s OK. It’s even comforting if you don’t overuse the same phrases. You can do it in your own way, but plan to deliver your show and topics and format consistently to retain your audience. 

Your Promise to listeners drives the way you organize your show. These are the key elements:

• Brand imaging
• Your guest selection
• How you frame your questions
• How you reflect back what you understand your audience wants from your show

Delivering on your promise, just like in real life, builds your reputation. To test if something is part of your Promise and will build your reputation, keep asking yourself:

“What do I want my audience to come away with from listening to my show?”

Your Promise holds your show together around that question.

Motivation: Why do people listen to a show? What motivated them to tune in? Here’s what we found out when we asked our Legal Talk Network listeners: people tune in initially because the topics are interesting. 

They are out in the world, curious about something, searched around, and found out that your show may have a possible answer. This curiosity is the beginning of your relationship together. 

Do a few specific things to help your potential audience find you:

• Episode Titles: Be specific about what you’re going to cover. Guest name, and what you’re going to talk about. It’s ok to be a little long (not lawyer-long but…):
  • Google Analytics for Your Law Firm…? (whatevs)
  • Using Google Analytics to Help You Make Business Decisions (better)
• Searchable: Write your titles in an interesting and possibly provocative way. But:
  • don’t be so cute that the search engines can’t find your relevant episode and deliver your episode to someone interested in hearing your show.
  • Write for both humans and search robots. 

In the industry as a whole, 30% of listeners, according to Edison’s Infinite Dial, report finding their favorite shows on a search engine:

• For us, as a niche topic network, we heard 18% of listeners found us through search. We had another 18% who reported that they “knew about us already” so that’s the nature of a small industry – we’re all friends and forgot where we met.

Do remember that Apple Podcasts is a Search Engine.

Help your potential audience find you in their favorite podcast search engine. This is not a small suggestion: hear me now and believe me on the next slide.  Connect your show to Apple Podcasts so you’re findable in the legal space. 

Even though Spotify says they’re the #1 podcast distributor, nearly 90% of our legal audience comes through Apple. 

This is our chart over time of user agents requesting episodes. User agents (agents like your podcast player, working on behalf of you, the user) are the robots that deliver episodes listeners download, and then report back to us “Hey, I sent your show to someone.”

The blue is Apple’s user agents. There’s no second place. The legal industry seems to have a very strong preference for Apple. Over 80% of OUR downloads come through Apple users. So, I recommend, in order to help your show find a legal audience, take the time to work through the multi-step process to get your show on Apple Podcasts. 

Listeners are motivated to listen ONCE  because of the topic. 

But then they STAY with a show because they like the hosts. 

All three shows represented on this panel are podcasts that people tend to stay with – their subscriber to download ratio is high, implying these three have established a rapport with their audiences. 

This chart about “What’s Important?” is really saying the audience trusts that time spent with these hosts will be spent in an entertaining or informative way… as long as the hosts remember their promise and bring their personalities and good hosting to the conversation. 

Know your audience.

Big or small, understand that your audience won’t include “everyone.”

Test the choices you make about your show (ie., guest selection, artwork choices, sponsor mix, promotional partners, etc.) by asking yourself “what do I want my audience to come away with from my show?”

Podcasting is very niched. That’s exciting to me because of all the choices. Niche is nice. It gives you the opportunity to be you and not have to please EVERYONE. You can get as deep and wonky as you want. As you’re developing your shows, think about who else wants to talk about these things with you – and be consistent in what you deliver. 

Think about it:  How do inside jokes work? They are special BECAUSE they don’t translate to a wide audience. When you created an inside joke with a friend, you two added to your bond of shared experiences. Podcasts can be hugely intimate because of the smallness of a topic.

I’ll give you a new idea to try. If you say “my audience is everyone,” you’ll please nobody in your effort to attract everyone. Podcasting, unless you’re Joe Rogan, is less about having the biggest audience, than it is about creating something interesting, well-formed, and valuable to a certain set of listeners.

In contrast, broadcast content has to please a lot of people, or rather, not antagonize major segments of audiences, so it ends up being mediocre. Pleasing everyone is a massive burden.

I am new to legal, but I’ve been in broadcast media in TV and radio for well over 20 years. I was in for so long that they gave me a trophy. So you can imagine it broke my heart when I realized a few years ago that I didn’t listen to my radio any more. I didn’t watch network TV anymore. I’d seen everything they were putting out, and I’d become adept at seeking out more interesting content.

Podcasts have a special kind of freedom that comes with not having to maintain (and appease) a massive audience. That allows us to go deep and narrow on a topic to pursue things that interest us, and get weird.

My fellow panelist Joe Patrice here has the biggest audience among our shows, and while he appeals very much to me, Thinking Like a Lawyer doesn’t appeal to everyone. Their tone is snarky, the vibe is distinctly ‘insider.’ There are sponsors I steer away from his very popular and fun show because that sponsor wouldn’t be consistent with the promise that show delivers to its audience.

Don’t talk to everyone. Identify your listeners… talk to them about stuff you’re both interested in.

There is room for more legal podcasts.

As much as we talk about niche and small audiences, there is room for more content, and room for your content. You might recognize this, but lawyers are voracious learners. You are a hungry bunch. This is good. That means there is audience for you. The legal market is NOT saturated.

When we asked our listeners what else they listen to besides Legal Talk Network, I expected to see all the other genres that are popular in the consumer space like comedy or news, sports or politics, true crime.

Here’s where we embrace the niche… OUR listeners, made up of over 75% attorneys, practicing or otherwise, told us their #1 other interests is “Other Law and Legal.” 

Hmmm? OK, so what kind of “Other Law and Legal” would you like specifically?

We dug in…  13% wanted Litigation and Courtroom, then Supreme Court Coverage, then History-based Legal, then Legal Technology… 

This list is a sushi menu of what to put together in your show. This is what your potential listeners are interested in. There is room in the podcast marketplace for you. 

As listeners, the legal community somehow has capacity to take in a remarkable volume of content. When we asked how many podcast episodes our listeners consumed in a week… 30% listen to 10 or more episodes of SOMETHING per week. 30%.

Compare that to the consumer audience…

…only 18% listened to that many in a week. Amateurs.

Don’t Use Bad Equipment

Audio quality does matter. Like I said at the beginning, I get a lot of submissions from legal podcasters like you. 

I know you would never do this, but if when I hear a host who sounds like he’s a mile away, or there’s a washing machine in the background, or traffic noise, I’m hearing “this person isn’t serious.” 

Simple equipment upgrades take your podcast to the next level. It won’t make your questions better, or think through your show outline, but it will help you cross a basic criteria. 

Everyone asks… so here is Adam the Audio Engineer’s Shopping List.

Don’t Be a Stranger

Let’s chat! Thank you for joining the conversation!
Lisa Kirkman
Director of Partnerships
Legal Talk Network
lkirkman@legaltalknetwork.com

“Data seems overwhelming.” Jared Correia, host of Legal Toolkit, acknowledged in the December 22, 2020 episode. It can be really hard for lawyers, who are not trained in numerical analysis, to embrace data. But, like the efficiencies revealed in the book and movie Moneyball, he encourages lawyers to be more analytical. 

“[You don’t need to do big data. You can look at] small data, I mean think about it, you’ve got a corpus of information in your law firm through which you can measure your clients and your staff and the activity of those two groups. Even if you start with basic financial data it’s good. Smart law firms are motivated to track effectively because if you want to get paid you want to track your financial information. Make it about value and efficiency. That’s a big win. Through the simplest action of applying KPIs and generating reports, you’d have a better sense of your profitability and your effectiveness.” 

Legal Toolkit

Moneyball Your Law Firm, Thought Leadership For the Win, and the Rump Roast: “Yacht or Nyacht?”

“Legal is such a competitive field and has been for some time,” Correia said, “that solo and small firms should absolutely be using data to gain a competitive advantage in the marketplace yet they don’t. You don’t see innovation in this space for whatever reason.” 

Measure the Cost of Beginning a Relationship: Converting Leads to Clients

There are lots of ways to slice up the cost of acquisition and cost of conversion metrics. Some firms will just look at billable hours at the end of the month, but more and more, especially firms that are consumer-facing like personal injury and bankruptcy, will look at their client revenue against the costs to bring that client in the door. 

Christopher T. Anderson, host of Un-Billable Hour, has an analytical approach to helping his law firm clients evaluate their real costs. In the May 10, 2022 “Community Table” episode, Chris took a call from a lawyer who wanted to make the compensation for her intake specialist a better incentive to convert at a higher rate. 

Chris cut right to the quick asking about their case value as a basis for figuring out the right compensation. At $125 per intake, Chris thought the specialist was not getting enough of that case value to justify his time. He might go work elsewhere for more money, and the clients he was booking had to wait seven to ten days to meet with an attorney. 

“So, here’s the deal. You’re going to find that the conversion rate for the drag-in in both your show-up rate and the conversion rate is going to be depressed at that timeframe. There’s a lot of people who will not wait that long. They’ll continue looking for lawyers.” 

The analysis was revealing to Chris’s client: “Yeah. And they prepay.  So, our show-up rate, well, we have had people who pay, and then when they realize they can’t get in, ask for a refund of the consult fee.” 

Chris advised her to look for ways to reduce that wait time and get the clients in sooner rather than later because that will ultimately increase the overall conversion rate. He continued to a harsh conclusion for his client:

“At $125 per intake, [your intake specialist] should be earning $42,000 in variable pay, on top of his $55,000, which means he’s earning $97,000. And I’m sorry, I promise you, I promise you, you will not keep him selling $3 million [in practice revenue] for $92,000 and you want to know the main reason why? Because I’m going to hire him. I’m going to steal him from you.”

Un-Billable Hour

Community Table: Promoting Employees, Hiring Mistakes, and Relinquishing Duties!

Conrad Saam, co-host of Lunch Hour Legal Marketing thinks lawyers are the ones the prospect wants to talk with. Lawyers aren’t always naturally great in that moment though. There are big gains from consciously improving those intake skills. In their June 22, 2022 episode, Conrad argued with Gyi, in an agreeing-sort of way, that there is value in the prospect having a good intake expertise.

“The person [answering] the phone does not need to be the lead attorney. The caller wants to talk to an attorney but that can be the worst lawyer in the world who is empathetic and listens really well to a client. This does not have to be the partner.”

They agree on delivering a good experience to that prospect, and find a way to do a ‘hot transfer’ to an attorney to complete that intake right away. Then take the time to review that second phase of the intake to continuously improve the rate of conversion.

He went on to challenge the audience to improve this skill: “How many of you are reviewing your calls because there is so much insight to be gained by listening in to the calls that are coming into your firm. And I suspect most of you will be disappointed if you take a listen to those calls.”

Lunch Hour Legal Marketing

Your Law Firm’s Intake Needs You || Legal Marketing LARPing: Level Up Your SEO

Look for Faster Payment Channels

According to the 2021 Clio Trends Report, 73% of firms now accept online payments. Is it more expensive than taking a check with no fees? Possibly, but the value lost is in your time. 

The 2021 Clio Legal Trends Report identified that clients are willing to step into the future and go online to pay their bills, even if lawyers are reluctant.

“For making payments, it’s clear that online options are strongly preferred by consumers. Online payments (66%) are the top choice, followed by automated payments (61%) and payments via mobile app (61%). In-person payments (59%) sit near the bottom of the list. At this stage, clients prefer options that prioritize convenience over any direct forms of interaction.”

Gyi Tsakalakis, Lunch Hour Legal Marketing’s other co-host, characterized the client experience with antiquated payment methods in the May 21, 2021 episode, “I don’t want to have to get in my car and drive to see you,” or you know, “go find my checkbook that I haven’t used in two years to pay my legal bill because you’re the only business that I have to write a check to pay and mail to,” because everybody else accepts online payment.”

Lunch Hour Legal Marketing

Top 5 Metrics For Your Law Firm

Traditional payments, upon analysis, prove to be tedious for the client and inefficient for the practice. If you have to turn in your billing report to someone who then converts that to an invoice and sends it out, you wait for the mail to arrive and then count on the client to turn around to write you a check. Then they have to send that piece of paper in the mail which you then take to the bank. With a more analytical mindset, you can recognize that you’ve spent a lot more in your time or your staff’s time, than the equivalent to 3% of the transaction fees. 

Despite the most forward thinking practice owner and good tools, Clio’s Legal Trends Report also pointed out that getting the money is still a challenge.

“The average collection rate for law firms in 2020 was 89%, which suggests that most law firms struggle to some degree in getting clients to pay their bills.” Those firms in the “Growing” category, who have adopted technology tend to do better than those firms that haven’t embraced newer billing and tracking tools. 

Listen to Legal Talk Network podcasts for analysis and new ways of thinking about running your legal practice.